Honoring Women in Mental Health Featuring Jamie Gray Hyder, Alessandra Torresani, and DeWanda Wise

NAMI was founded by families coming together in an alliance to advocate for mental health care and an end to discrimination against mental illness. While many family members were part of our founding, it was largely women leading at the helm. In this episode of “Hope Starts With Us,” we’re joined by three NAMI Ambassadors: guest host Alessandra Torresani, Jamie Gray Hyder, and DeWanda Wise. Together, they will explore the impact of significant women in mental health and how their contributions have helped pave the path to today’s mental health advocacy landscape.

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.

Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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In order to truly care for each other, we have to recognize when there are things out of our field of education, out of our life experience, that maybe we need to go and get outside help for. You're not failing someone as a parent, you're not failing someone as a partner or as a mentor because you need to go and get help. We can't possibly provide that for everyone all the time. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I am your guest host Alessandra Torresani. You may know me as an actress, I'm a mental health spokesperson, I'm a NAMI ambassador, and I'm also the host of EmotionAL Support, a podcast that talks about mental wellness and all of our fun emotions. And I'm excited. This is my second episode as a guest host on Hope Starts With us. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resource and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories, and hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and you have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective, and we hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone. I am Alessandra. I am a NAMI ambassador. I am an actress. And the way that I started my whole mental health journey was, I think the moment I was born, I think for a lot of us. I live with bipolar one disorder. It's something that I've had my entire life and something that I wasn't able to identify and diagnose until I was about 22 years old, when an acupuncturist, who came on set, was the one that actually helped suggest this after I had been on so many highs and lows and been to so many doctors and had so much confusion, and I felt very lost, and I felt very alone, and I found community in NAMI and I have been a proud ambassador for I don't know how many years, I don't even want to say, because I think that's going to age me. But I'm just so excited to be part of this. So today we are going to be talking about Women's History Month. NAMI was born out of families coming together to advocate for change together. Founded in Madison, Wisconsin in 1979 by a group of family members, including Eleanor Owen, Harriet Shelter, and Beverly Young, I love the name Beverly. Today's episode will be highlighting the women who have paved the path in reducing stigma and discrimination around mental health conditions. Today, I'm joined by some amazing women. I am joined by DeWanda Wise and Jamie Gray Hyder. I am now going to have the fabulous women introduce themselves. I'm going to start with DeWanda. DeWanda, welcome. Thank you so much. I am DeWanda Wise. I'm also a very proud ambassador for NAMI. I would say before I knew what depression, anxiety, and suicide ideation were, I just experienced life as a highly sensitive person. I still experience life as a highly sensitive person. I was literally just in CVS, and I saw a man with a Vietnam hat, and I thought to myself-- The first thought I had was, thank you for your service. The second thought I had was tears because I was just like, I wish our country did better by you. So yeah, that was my introduction. I think I came across NAMI because my boy Utkarsh Ambudkar is also an ambassador. And when I started to get further and further into the trenches that is Hollywood, I recognized how much more important it would be to really ground and root myself in a strong and daily mental health care practice. So that is a little about me. I'm really excited to be here on this podcast. This is really cool. This is so exciting. And Jamie, would you like to let the audience know who you are? Hello. My name is Jamie Gray Hyder. I am also an actress, and I'm also a NAMI ambassador and proud to be so. I am really excited to be here today. I'm really excited to share some insights that I've learned along the way. And definitely a lot of those insights come in thanks to other women in my life, other women like you all who are open and share their stories. I have my own struggles with anxiety, and situational depression, and pretty severe ADHD. And when you're in a really unstable industry such as the entertainment industry to DeWanda's point, you know, having a grasp on your own mental health doesn't mean you have it all figured out, but really kind of creating a routine for yourself and really owning that that is something that you need to prioritize is really important when you have control over so little else in your life. So things like this, these discussions like we're having today, I think are really important because it gives all of us another source of support and another outlet and another way to kind of feel less alone in how we feel, you know. This is part of our conversation and I'll get back to the main topics, but I was speaking with another individual who was actually part of Hollywood, but on the agent side and who's no longer part of it anymore. And she was like, you know, the industry that has become what it is now is so different than it was even pre-COVID, where we all feel so alone. Right? Because we're submitting these tapes. This blood, sweat, and tears and it's like going to the interweb and you're like, where did it go? Did anyone see this? And you know, you used to be in rooms and talk to people and go, "hey--what's going on?" You never felt alone. And I feel like this world is so isolating. And for those who also live with mental health conditions, it's just-- it's so much tougher now than I think it's ever been. And so it's so much more important for us to connect, even like this. Just to know that we are not alone. I think I can't be any stronger about that. So I'm so happy to dig right into this episode with you girls right now. When we look at the history of mental health advocacy in America, the trailblazers who come to mind are the women leading with empathy and compassion, such as you wonderful women. One example also we have is Rosalynn Carter, former first lady and wife of President Jimmy Carter. She helped bring the Mental Health Assistance Act of 1980 to fruition, continued leadership through the Carter Center which aims to improve the quality of life for people programs in peace and health. In 1985 began Rosalynn Carter Symposium on Mental Health Policy and later the Rosalynn Carter Institute for caregivers. How do you feel the work of policy leaders like Rosalynn Carter impact the mental health space today? Well, I feel like it's grown beyond just what is the president and the first lady going to do? I think we have to all take that upon ourselves now to be the voice of the voiceless and share our own insights. Is there anything that you women do to raise awareness, like not even just because you're a NAMI ambassador, but something like on the daily that you do for your own mental health connection that you find with other people to raise awareness. I think it's-- it's fairly well integrated for me at this point. I think you know, one of my heroes is Bell Hooks and Bell Hooks, what she understood really well is collective care in community. So it's really living and operating through a lens of care. If I'm talking to anybody, if I'm conducting business or if I'm like, just visiting a friend, the first line of inquiry is always and authentic, "How are you doing?" You know, like and really being intentional about not going to transaction first, but in a real way, like checking in. I feel like in, you know, the next little while, we won't, if anything, on a policy level, mental health will not be a priority, which is also why the work of NAMI is so vital, so important right now. So it really will be up to us to continue to fill in those gaps for each other and for our communities. Absolutely. I love that. I love that. Jamie, is there anything that you maybe could insight into something that you practice on the daily, that maybe someone else you know can take a practice in that you do for mental health awareness? You know, I think for your first question, you know, having someone like Rosalynn Carter or people in power show that this is a communal responsibility to DeWanda's point. Like, this is something that is-- should be all of our responsibility. And when you have someone in a position of power that tells you that it's really refreshing and it allows more people to get help. Now when you don't, when you have people in power who aren't necessarily operating with that as a priority, it's okay because there are organizations, there are non-government organizations, there are nonprofits. There are people out there who still want to offer these services and these resources. Now, do you have to dig a little more to find them? Yes. But one thing that I do right now, if I'm in a position where I'm losing hope on certain subjects or something, that's important to me, I go out and seek the nonprofits or the NGOs that are out there like NAMI, who still can provide the type of support that our communities need. And I either try to highlight what they're doing or I--if I can, I donate money or time or whatever makes sense or whatever I'm able to do, or simply it's educating myself on their work to know there is hope, right? To know that there is someone out there who is still actively trying to support us. But even if you can't necessarily contribute to the work, I think educating yourself on what they're doing provides you with a little bit of comfort knowing you're not the only one who sees the need for it. So it's not necessarily maybe a daily thing, but a general thing you can do, I think, to provide yourself with information on how you can continue to work towards things that are important to you, regardless of what's happening in politics or the world around you. I love it, and I think also, you know, you never know who's listening or who may absorb the information. For instance, if I was talking to somebody, this happened to me recently where I was talking to someone about, you know, my time with living bipolar disorder and before I was on medication and how hard it was and suicidal ideations and how I knew it wasn't me, you know, and what I did, the steps. And I was talking to someone who I knew could not relate by any means to what I was talking about, did not have the same mental health condition, but then they relate to someone else who then they were like, "Hey, do you mind if they reach out to you because they don't know anyone who lives with bipolar disorder and they did have a few questions." And I never would have thought that my conversation with that individual would then go to someone else. So you never know who's listening. You never know who's absorbing that information and is going to pass it forward. So I think that this is all really important things that we can all do together. Another key advocate for mental health who is very important for NAMI's history is Bebe Moore Campbell, a journalist by trade. She wrote books about mental illness and recovery, offering hope to many families. Among her works is the "72 Hour Hold" and "Sometimes My Mommy Gets Angry." I've been there. Founded NAMI Urban Los Angeles, inspired friend to lobby for a National Minority Mental Health Awareness Month, which was successfully established in 2008. She recognized and understood the detrimental consequences of silence rooted in stigma, one of the reasons for the lack of mental health care and treatment, which communities of color experience. How has the work of this fabulous woman impacted your life and lived experiences, I'm going to start with DeWanda. I'm going to ask you, explore how her work has impacted your experiences as a Black woman. You know, 2008 is not that long ago. And I think even still, you know, there's so much outreach and, work to be done and continues to be done, I think in the Black community and communities of color in general. All of us come from these different kind of cultural practice and idealization, and religions, you know, that sometimes serve as boundaries and barriers to care. We're also usually acculturated to really value, a certain look of strength that doesn't permit us our own vulnerability and our own humanity in some ways. And to Jamie's point, before really quite enspiriting, you know, when you know that there are women who've come before you who have really broken ground for the work to continue, for there to be a real kind of legacy of advocacy and also very tangible results. I think she had a real understanding that care was going to happen from the ground up, and it was going to happen in the conversations you have with family members. It was going to happen in those intimate, sort of behind closed doors places, more strongly and more profoundly than necessarily, you know, speaking from a mountaintop, so to speak. Yeah, 100%. And I think that that was so powerful in that is when you are-- when you can really change the group that's close to you. And I don't mean change, but when you can lighten the group that's closest to you, that is where the impact is, you know? And I think that that's why I don't lose hope for the next few years, because I know that these generations coming up are just-- they're so brave and there's so strong and so open that I do hope that change will still continue to be made because of these brave voices that are not standing down. For me as a woman who is advocating for mental health and improved access, especially for underserved communities, what do you hope to see in the future of mental health access? I think something that, has changed my life I would love to see more of, which is a real kind of integrated care. Like, I didn't know about the role of nutrition on mental health until in my 30s. There were so many things about, you know, so many tools that I was certainly unaware of. I'm looking forward to, one conversations that expand beyond, anxiety and mental health and really tap into exactly what we're talking about: bipolar, schizophrenia, conditions that I've witnessed. Growing up quite a bit in my family and beyond. Yeah, both of those things. Just a more holistic approach. More tools beyond, therapy, talk therapy, and more access to care beyond Xanax for anxiety, you know what I mean? Yeah. I think the idea that people should be exploring a more diverse range of treatments is really important. Talk therapy is amazing and for a lot of people, they need to start there. And I have done other things such as TRE, people call it either trauma release exercise or tension relief exercise, which is an incredible experience. It's a physical experience. Just quickly, I'll explain just how it works, but they use tremors to essentially, if you're not familiar with it and you're listening to this, I highly recommend looking it up because with tremor relief exercise, you're able to kind of speak to your body in a way and tell your body that it's safe and secure. So you may have been doing all this work on healing your brain and your point of view and all these things, but if your body hasn't really been told that it's safe and secure, then there's going to be all these impacts, gastrointestinal, or that crick that you can't ever get out of your back, but no doctor can tell you really why it's there. I did this one time and I came out of it, and so much of my body's physical response to anxiety was minimized for like the next month, and I just really believe it was incredibly healing. With that said, I think the idea that people need to be open to treatment in general is really important. Talking about stigma, I can speak from the perspective of being part of a middle eastern family and the cultural dynamics there, and the idea that everything you could ever need is already there in your family. And if you need to talk to someone, then you talk to someone in your family, and why would you need outside help or support? I think sometimes it feels almost like an insult in a way. But I think we need to realize in order to truly care for each other, we have to recognize when there are things out of our field of education, out of our life experience, that maybe we need to go and get outside help for. So even just generally starting there and recognizing that you're not failing someone as a parent, you're not failing someone as a partner, or as a mentor because you need to go and get help for things that are going on with you. You know, you're not failing anyone because you can't provide someone in your family with that help, you know. It's not-- We can't possibly provide that for everyone all the time. So I may not be qualified to provide that. I love that you said failure because that's something that I feel like so many people that I talk to, on my podcast, that's what it seems to be, is they don't want to reach out for help because they don't want to fail in the, you know, "Oh, but my mom worked so hard. She was so good." Like, you know, me, I come from a single mom. Like I never wanted her to feel like, oh, my God, she failed as a mom. It's like, no, it's just this is a chemical imbalance that I was born with, and it's there. And I love the alternative. Like, you know, I shared my story earlier of how that is how I was diagnosed. Bipolar disorder was through an acupuncturist. I swear by acupuncture it helps me just reset my whole nervous system. So I think finding different things that are not just, you know, in the box, I think is, is so great and not being afraid of failure. I think those are two super, super important things. And I thank you for sharing that. Could you discuss your work with veterans and how also in hospitality industry and the need for mental health resources? Sure. I can start with veterans. You know, DeWanda was telling the story earlier about when, you know, you see a veteran and you really immediately feel compelled to take in their experience, even if it's just for a moment in a grocery store. And you thank them for your service, but then you also have to immediately ask yourself what it is that I'm thanking them for. And it's not just the service that they perform, but it's also, you're kind of thanking them for sacrificing the rest of their life and the impact that their service is going to have on that. And we know that we're not getting them the resources they need on a holistic and systemic level. So then you also feel like you're apologizing in a way when, you know, like you said, you feel like you know that you failed them because we sell them this heroic journey. I mean, I went to a high school where a lot of kids were recruited, and I remember the cafeteria, and I remember the journey you're sold on. And that provides people with a lot of validation. And even after the fact, they feel accomplished and they've got purpose. But then we kind of leave them in the lurch and they don't necessarily have the resources they need or the comfort level asking for the things that they need. That really should be standard for when anyone comes out. If anyone comes out of the military, there should be a process that they go through that really prepares them for civilian life more effectively, and they need those resources kind of, you know, forced upon them in some cases because they might not be able to see exactly what they need. It takes a little while to come out of that fog, I think, and it's really important that we remind them that we're here for them, and we understand that what they went through is-- is really intense. Is there a personal story for you that, you know, why you're so drawn to do so much work with the veterans? I mean, I know for me it's like my grandpa, my great uncle, you know. But is there anything personal that you would like to share? You know, I have family members. I grew up in the DC area, so I grew up around majority of people being involved in military. So I have a lot of connections that way, but it really came for me after I did Call of Duty and I started to do a lot of outreach with the Navy in particular. And I would go on these aircraft carriers, and I would have these experiences with veterans who really, you know, were thanking me for the things I was doing to help make them, especially as women accepted in their real positions in real life. And for me, that was one of the most insanely touching and outrageous feelings I ever had, because they're telling me that their lives are being made easier in service based on the portrayal of characters that I'm working on, and that is extremely powerful. But beyond that, spending the time with each individual member of our military, I realized that for a while, I villainized, a lot of times, people who are in the military and I'm like, this is what you're doing to another country. Like, if I had an issue with something that was going on in our politics. And what it really taught me was, I may sometimes have an issue with our government's use of our military, but I'm always going to be there for the individuals. It makes me emotional to say it right now because we pin so much on them, and it's not their choice. It doesn't matter who is in office, it doesn't matter what party the person in office, you know, represents. These individuals serve blindly. And I realize that they deserve our respect and our support, regardless of whether or not we agree with how our government utilizes them. Thank you for sharing that, because it's so true. And I've met many, wonderful men and women in the military, with family. I'm sure you guys all-- and sometimes you hear them and they just are just so angry about like where our policies are and like what we're doing, but they're like, this is a job, you know what I mean? And at some point, like this is paying for, you know, food to be on the table for my, you know, three children like, this is this is all I know. This is what I did, you know. So I just-- I thank you for sharing that. That was really beautiful. Thank you. I was asked by NAMI if there was one thing I'd like more people to know about mental health stigma or increasing access to care. And I'm going to take this moment to, like, put my mom hat on and say, I'm a mom of a two and a half year old, wild, crazy, fun, toddler, little girl named Lady, and she's just so fun. But something that I experienced when I was pregnant, immediately postpartum, and still that I find to this day is lack of community, loneliness, experiencing pregnancy was really hard for me because I had to get off my medication before I got pregnant. Having high highs and low lows that I hadn't had for 14 years. I'm very blessed. I had a great partner with me. My mom was there. I had resources of doctors and, you know, all sorts of woo people that were there for-- to be by my side and help me through the journey. But it's a very lonely time when you're sitting there with a baby and they don't do much and you're just like, I'm giving you my all, and there's no there's no response. And while it's such a beautiful moment and I wouldn't change anything about it, there are so many women that go through psychosis, and specifically with bipolar disorder. And sometimes psychosis can come on and you can develop bipolar disorder. I use that in quotes because that-- it's still like all up in the air. They're not quite sure. But a lot of people develop that while they're pregnant. And so they have these moments of psychosis and they feel like terrible people because they can't, beyond postpartum depression, they hate their baby. And they don't understand why. Because it's the one thing that they wanted and there's no resources. And I went on my podcast and I was like screaming and yelling this, that literally every week through my pregnancy journey, I would type in "week 24 pregnant bipolar disorder." And I would find the only people that I-- which is scary--but the only people that were writing things that were so in-depth and so real and raw were on Reddit, and it was women that were supporting other women. And that is how I found certain people who I could identify with. Oh, during this week you felt this, this kind of anxiety or this high. Okay, so I know I'm not alone on this because I had gone to doctors and they're like, we need to put you in medicine, you need to be back on medicine. And I was like, no, I know I can do this, you know? So I just want to share and take this opportunity for Women's Month, throughout the year as well, but to share, you know, if you are pregnant, if you're postpartum, reach out. NAMI has incredible, incredible, incredible resources. And reach out to me on my podcast, on my Instagram. I can help guide you as much as I possibly can and in the right direction, because it feels so lonely. Even if you have a community around you and a support system. But I promise you are not alone. So that is my spiel on that. And last question for you to DeWanda is, what part of your journey brought you here to advocate? And what is one item or one thing about you that you wish people would know about you in this journey? Growing up in poverty was like-- is like my mental health, you know, hero origin story. Mental health becomes such a--it is a at the absolute bottom of priorities, you know what I mean? And so, so many people in this nation and beyond are really left behind because it is just, it's the last thing. It's the last thing. And if you're a child too, who knows that they're growing up in poverty, like who is aware of it, then it's really the last thing because, you know, there are quote-unquote, more important, you know, there's food. There's food, there's shelter, there's employment. There are all these things that really, take precedent. And so, you know, to your point about mothers, I feel like there are so many children who won't survive and who are not surviving. Not to make this an infomercial, but I think that's also what gravitated me towards NAMI, because it's always been about true access and not an access that's predicated on finances, not an access that's predicated on status. And I'm really, I'm continually moved and inspired by the organization itself and all the ambassadors for coming towards this end, towards this cause with all their hearts, and you know, all their-- their full selves. I think, you know, we've been dancing around it, but we're going to need it very deeply. We are going to need each other. And knowing that it's here, knowing that there's, you know, there's a real kind of underground continues to be like such a beautiful scaffolding for-- of support for people who need it. So that's, that's my origin. And I think also what you tapped on, which is so wonderful is, yes, it is like this underground of support. But what's so wonderful about, I think NAMI, about the community and the ambassadors is it doesn't feel like a pipe dream, right? It doesn't feel like--it feels so easily accessible. And I think it also doesn't feel urgent in the sense where, you know, there's these suicide hotline numbers. There's the text that you can do. This is another step up, like, hey, I'm just feeling kind of lonely today, and I'm really anxious and the world around feels like it's crumbling inside. Let me just go on here and just see what I can find. It doesn't have to be super urgent for you to feel the need to connect with something at NAMI. So I love that. And Jamie, I'm going to ask you, what have you experienced? What part of your journey brought you here to advocate? And what is one thing that you wish people maybe knew about you in your mental health journey? You know, I think one thing that brought me here is trying to give more voice to the fact that change is always possible and in fact, change is inevitable. And I think that something that people think of in a negative context sometimes, for instance, when someone says, you know, this too shall pass, it's all about like, let me get past this negative thing and into this positive thing, but it also means this positive thing is going to pass too. So I need to make way, be ready for that negative thing that might happen next. But I say that because no matter how stuck we feel, how alone we feel, how unheard we feel, whatever's making us feel isolated, that an other is always an option. Like you do have options. And the more people share their stories through organizations like NAMI, the more somebody realizes that what's happening to them isn't actually as unique as they thought. And I know that that's a selfish thought we all have. I think in order to make our problems have more value to us and to feel more real to us, but it doesn't make it any less real that there's thousands of other people out there who probably have a scary, similar set of circumstances that led them to exactly where they are today, or maybe that where they were in six months ago, and now they're six months past where you are. And this gives you the opportunity to hear those stories. NAMI does. And these advocates, you know, all the work that we all do. Those things are really important. And with that said, you know, as far as something that's personal to my journey, it's so cliche, but it's so important because especially in what-- in the entertainment business, people are put on pedestals and we idealize somebody's life when we really know very little about it. So the idea that someone in your life could see that you're struggling, but if they placed you on this pedestal because of what you do or what you've done or who you know, these are things they might not feel comfortable coming to you and kind of saying, hey, are you okay? Can I do something for you? Because they've kind of put you above them. And I am, you know, in no way hugely successful in my career, but the small amount of success I've had, I think for some people in my life, I've led them to believe that I have less problems or that my problems are less intense, or that I have more resources somehow, or more willingness to go to resources. But even being an advocate, I'm not always willing to do that for myself. I can recognize when I'm not taking care of things, and that is helpful, and that is something that I will always have. But it doesn't really matter. Like we're-- none of us are immune. There's no one condition, whether it's money, or a perfect family unit, or the exact life plan you've always wanted, or a successful career. Whatever it is, there is no formula because being human is a constant change of chemicals and cells and experiences and needs, especially as women as we get older and we're dealing with perimenopause and trying to decide, is this normal? Is this that? Is this because I didn't eat enough today? Like, you know, it's all-- it can be all over the place. So long-winded way of saying, have compassion. Consider that there's always more to the story, and you're never going to be wrong by leading with grace or leading with kindness, no matter who that person is. And so to DeWanda's original point, which I'm meaning to point out, I do think one beautiful thing about the last five, ten years of development and mental health advocacy and awareness is that you do ask, "How are you?" so much more genuinely now. And people know that you're serious. You're like, don't even try to sugarcoat like, what's going on with you? And you can do it at a coffee shop, you know, with your barista. I always do. How are you really? Just bring it up, you know? Are you sure you're doing all right? You know, it's like you can never care too much. Or if they're doing a really good, you ask, how do you do it so good? Can I have some advice? What-- what do you order here? Because you seem to have a lot of energy. Yeah. Yeah. Well, before we conclude, I am going to ask you all the question we ask every podcast guest. The world can be a very difficult place, and sometimes it can be hard to hold on to hope. That's why each episode, we dedicate the last couple minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold On to Hope. DeWanda, can you tell me what helps you hold on to hope? What helps me hold on to hope? I have, a laundry list of things. My mother, who is hilarious and has been hilarious my entire life. I'm just forever thankful for her because she cracks me up kind of nearly every day, to be honest with you. Very strong gratitude practice. Also cliche. Also very corny. Also scientifically works. So everybody, three things a night. That's it. Just start doing it. You'll feel ridiculous. You will also feel better. And just trying my utmost to be as radically present as I possibly can be. And that's also a practice and can also feel very corny, but just something as simple as like where I am right now as these ladies can see. I'm like, look at the snow falling. I'm going to trace down these snowflakes. I'm jealous. So lovely. And Jamie, same question for you. What helps you hold on to hope? You know I might not have less problems or less challenges as I get older in life, but I have more faith in myself and I feel more steady in myself. And that gives me a lot of hope because I'm not worried about what's next. Because I know that my ability to handle it is only getting stronger and stronger. Even if it's a fantastic thing, I'm better prepared to be better at that thing, you know? So it gives me hope for myself and my future. It gives me hope for others, whether or not they're people that I align with or not. It gives me hope for their future and their personal development, because I'm experiencing it and have really greatly in the last two years of my life when I've been out of work for a long time, honestly. So I kind of had to go inward because I didn't have anywhere else to go. So yeah, that gives me hope knowing that, like I said, change is possible, that I feel more and more secure in myself. You know, I'll be 40 in a couple of months. And I want people to realize that you really do get to know yourself better. You can improve, you know? You're going to be 40? I thought you were like 25 years--oh my God! The olive--the olive--the Lebanese. No. But I just think that this conversation is a testament to the fact that growth is always possible. And for that, I'll have hope in myself, in everyone around me. I'm going to answer that question, to what I hold on to with hope is seeing the world through my daughter's eyes. It's super cheesy, but we're a very open family, as you can probably imagine me being the mother. But we're very open with our emotions. And when I cry, like I'm doing right now, like, because I'm so emotional about it. But like, when I cry, I let her know, like, this is why I'm crying. This is why I'm feeling. This is--I'm not angry. I'm not upset. I'm not mad. I'm crying because I'm feeling so good about this moment. Or I'm crying because mom is feeling sad and I'm not quite sure if it's an imbalance. There's obviously a time and a place of where you say these things, but I have hope because, you know, I do all the mommy and me and the parent and me classes, and I see these teachers who are so incredible and they're teaching these children how to feel and not be frustrated and angry and then saying, don't feel this way and keep it internalized. And then that's where the problems all really, truly begin. So I have hope for future generations now that we are, you know, tapped in. I mean, I'm 37. It took me a long time to finally be comfortable with this. And now that I'm comfortable with my emotions and my feelings and seeing these different generations younger than me being so open, I just have, I have hope for the future. I really, I really, really, really do. They're brave and they're strong and they're in touch with themselves. So I am going to wrap this up. This has been Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. If you are looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with the NAMI Helpline and find local resources, visit nami.org/help text "helpline" to 62640 or dial one 1-800-950-NAMI. That's 6264. Or if you're experiencing an immediate suicidal ideation, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. It has been a pleasure to be your guest host today. Thank you for listening. Thank you to these powerful women I'm around. And everyone, be well. We got it. We're not alone.