Living With Anxiety and Thriving as Young Adults Featuring Srihitha Dasari, Nadiyah Fisher, Anuj Gandhi, and Caitlyn Jennings

May is National Anxiety Awareness Month, so four members of NAMI Next Gen joined NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. to talk about their experiences with anxiety. In this episode, Srihitha Dasari, Nadiyah Fisher, Anuj Gandhi, and Caitlyn Jennings share stories about their mental health journeys with us. Their conversation will cover their personal experiences, the many different types of anxiety, some ideas for managing anxiety, how mental health education can help youth, and more. 

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.

Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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One thing I try to focus on in terms of breaking down stigma in spaces where mental health is often overlooked is really creating that area for open and transparent conversation because healing really is collective. And in my experience, it starts with creating room for honesty and especially vulnerability. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. My name is Dan Gillison, CEO of NAMI, and I'm your host. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us, all of us. And there's five reasons. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories. And most importantly, hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone. Our theme for this episode is anxiety. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and Anxiety Awareness Month. National Anxiety and Depression Awareness Week was May third through ninth, just a few days before this episode airs. Anxiety can present in many ways which we'll explore in this episode, with four members of this year's NAMI Next Gen cohort. Now our next gen members give so much of themselves, and I'd like to introduce them to you as we begin this conversation. Srihitha Dasari, studying brain and cognitive sciences and anthropology at MIT and is the Executive Director of Project No Bounds. Nadiyah Fisher, applying to medical school to become a child and adolescent psychiatrist, and is a volunteer engagement lead for the Delaware Behavioral and Emotional Support Team, and trains her community on Narcan administration. Anuj Gandhi, applying for his PhD in clinical and counseling psychology and is the founder of MyJyoti. Anuj? Yes. MyJyoti. Okay. And then Caitlyn Jennings, graduate of the University of Maryland Global Campus, is a volunteer with the National Capital Park and Planning Commission. Welcome to all four of you. Now, I'd like to kick it off by asking each of you to tell us a little bit about your stories. Could you share over a few minutes to-- for our listeners about your mental health journeys? Caitlyn, why don't you get us started? Yeah. Of course. So looking back on it, my mental health journey began long before I knew what mental health even was. I was a very anxious kid to the point where activities that were supposed to be fun for children, like recess and gym class, gave me a ton of anxiety. I didn't know what to expect from them, and my parents said that growing up I was a very rigid child. I always liked knowing what was going to happen and when it was going to happen. To the point where we all sat at the same seats around the dinner table because having my mom and dad swap seats would throw me into a panic. So when I was in grade school, my anxiety only grew with the expectations that came from not only academics, but the social scene. And I found that although I was thriving by all outward metrics, internally I felt very anxious and that anxiety got to the point where during my junior year of college, I took a medical leave of absence to seek treatment. I was finally diagnosed with anxiety and depression, and a lot of things began to click into place. I tried over a dozen medications and was simultaneously in therapy, and I finally found the right combination of both medical treatment and mental health treatment. That really put me on the path towards healing. So that's a bit about my background and my story. Caitlyn, thank you for first of all, sharing your story, owning your story, and also sharing that as a junior in college, you took a leave of absence. That is actually looking at, okay, there's something that I want to address, I need to address, and I'm going to do what I need to do to address it. So, thank you for sharing that story. And really do appreciate it very much. Let me now go to Nadiyah. Nadiyah? Yes. So I like to say that being a mental health advocate was something that chose me. As a kid, I had lots of adverse childhood experiences that caused me to really develop childhood depression and anxiety. I always had a fear of something going wrong due to past experiences or more trauma coming back to me. Additionally, in college, I realized that a week before my menstrual cycle, I would have like highs and lows in my mood and just rapid changes. I remember one time I had an organic chemistry final and I literally had to think in my head, Nadiyah, if you don't go, you will get an F in order to get out of bed because my moods were all over the place due to having premenstrual dysphoric disorder. So my mental health journey hasn't been linear, but just happy to be an advocate today and be an advocate that I wish I saw as a kid. You know, Nadiyah, thank you for that. And for our listeners, we hope that you've just heard two of the stories, because for many of you, you're navigating this right now or you're a young person in your own life is navigating it. So we do appreciate our Next Gen members and leaders actually sharing their, their, their personal experiences. So let's go to Anuj. And Anuj, you can correct me if I'm pronouncing your name wrong and or, your not-for-profit, because I want to make sure that our audience hears it right. And if you would share that, as well as your story, we'd greatly appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. I'm so happy to be here. You're pronouncing my name beautifully. It is Anuj. And my organization is named MyJyoti. So it's not like "joy," it's "juh." I don't think that sound exists technically in English, but I think everyone can get it. In terms of my story, I started experiencing signs and symptoms of depression and anxiety during high school. Even if I didn't know it, I felt a lot of pressure from my community and greater society to succeed. So I was always an overachiever. But I think that my anxiety manifested in a way that took things to the next level. I wouldn't eat, I wouldn't sleep. I would just focus on getting that grade or getting into that college. And so I started to go to therapy in my senior year of high school before college. But college was still very much recovery for me. And recovery is not linear. I had ups and downs. During my sophomore year, I had the worst panic attack of my life after losing friends and family members to suicide. And then a year later, I was briefly hospitalized after a suicide attempt. But I think after realizing that my mental health was manifesting, you know, differently than what my psychology book was texting-- was telling me, was when I started to really start to recover better and look at mental health more holistically. Anuj, thank you for sharing your story. And before we get to our next, Next Gen member, I just want to summarize what the audience has heard so far. We heard I was anxious in grade school. We would sit at the table in the same seats because that would also make me anxious. And I recognize this as I matriculated through school and by my junior year, I took a leave of absence. That's leadership. That's understanding. We also heard about A.C.E.S., adverse childhood experiences and navigating those experiences as well as other things. And third, we heard about a young student who was all about overachievement and the stress and the pressure of overachievement and the depression and anxiety that came with that. Who has listened to this so far and cannot relate, either directly or with a friend or a colleague in school right now? So let's now go to Srihitha. Srihitha. Srihitha. And, you know, what you are doing, both of your not-for-profit and there at MIT in terms of your major, is all about who you are and what you want to do across the country. Tell us who you are and why. Yeah. Thanks, Dan. I'm Srihitha. I'm currently a college student. But I've been living with anxiety for as long as I can remember, even before I really knew what to call it. Especially growing up in a South Asian family, mental health wasn't something we really talked about. For years, I thought what I was feeling, the racing thoughts, the pressure to constantly be, quote unquote perfect. The late night spirals, was just me being dramatic or not strong enough. And by high school, I was dealing with anxiety and especially body image issues, quietly battling disordered eating and the constant need to shrink myself not just physically, but emotionally. And it really took years before I realized that the spiral of negative thoughts, the perfectionism, the panic, they weren't things I had to deal with alone or in silence. And it was really college when I came to that realization. Therapy, supportive peers, and slowly building the courage to just be honest about my struggles really helped me start reclaiming my voice. And so now, through national advocacy like NAMI, through peer support initiatives and leading a nonprofit focused on health and hygiene equity, I try to create spaces where other young people, especially those from immigrant or marginalized backgrounds, can see that they're not alone either, because none of us should really have to suffer in silence to be taken seriously in the first place. None of us should have to suffer in silence. Thank you for sharing that and also sharing, you know, the fact that you're not alone. And we want to make sure that our audience listening understands you're not alone. You just heard about four young adults who have navigated this and are navigating it. And you shared some things just now, that were incredible. Late night battles, body image, perfectionism. These are all things that young adults experience, and many of them don't share it. They don't tell their story. So I want to say thank you to all four of you for doing what you're doing, because you've just set up the rest of this conversation. And I, I look at this as a conversation. So while I'll set up some questions in terms of asking if anybody wants to add anything and please do so because this is for the listeners and this is for someone that, as we think about it, maybe they wish they had known this. And you're now able to tell them this. So just know that even though I'll call out your name if someone else wants to join in, please do that. So Anuj, let me-- let me ask you, this right now. And, Nadiyah, could you tell us more about some of the forms of anxiety, in terms of, we know it comes in many different forms. How has it been experienced by you? How have you seen it? How have you lived it? What could you share with our listeners? Yeah, I can jump in first. So as I said in my story, my anxiety was really influenced by my identity in my community as an Indian child of immigrants. I felt a lot of pressure growing up, from my community, but also the greater society to succeed academically and professionally as a result of what's known as the model minority myth, which sort of positions Asian Americans as a quote unquote model minority. And having to fit that stereotype is a lot of pressure, especially for young students. So in my head, I thought that I have to do everything possible in order to fulfill that stereotype. I sacrificed sleep, food, social connection, like everything possible in order to get that grade. And so I didn't start to learn that this was a manifestation of my anxiety until I wrote an article about, what this phenomenon is, which it's normally referred to as high functioning or achievement anxiety. And it's highly prevalent in the Asian-American community. And also specific to the Asian community, specifically, even the South Asian community is the manifestation of anxiety somatically. Right? So feeling it physically, which happens with a lot of racial ethnic minorities, holding on to anxiety as headaches or stomach aches, body pain, physical discomfort. And I-- when I was in high school, I would say to my mom to get out of school that I had stomach aches and I did have stomach aches. I really did, but there was nothing wrong with me physically. My diet was fine. No doctors could tell me that there was actually something wrong with my stomach. And I realized later that this was also, again, a manifestation of my anxiety, a way for my body to tell me that something was wrong. Thank you, Anuj. And you know, as you as you explained about achievement anxiety and high functioning achievement as well and high functioning experiences, you also mentioned the South Asian community. And, you know, sometimes we look at our different communities and we have to make sure that we're understanding that we need to meet people where they are, not where we want them to be, and make sure that they're not invisible to us. So thank you for sharing that. And, as I come to you, Nadiyah, you know, we talk about stigma and we said that, you know, hope starts with us reducing stigma. You brought something up as you shared that we don't really talk about that much. And it's that premenstrual period of time, and there's something inside of that. And you also brought up A.C.E.S. So could you share a little bit about the different forms of how anxiety has revealed itself in your lived experience? Absolutely. And I think also experiencing anxiety due to stigma or like fear of being stigmatized. So as a Black girl at the time, you fear of being seen as angry or standoffish or isolated, but in actuality, your heart is beating fast. You're sweating, you can't concentrate. You're on edge, you're startled, you have headaches, you're restless. And sometimes when you're very quiet or shy, which I was as a child, it could be taken the wrong way. Or that you don't want to be around other people or be welcoming. And particularly in the Black community, mental health is kind of seen as something that's like brushed under the rug or the ice cube you kick under the fridge. Like it's kind of like you, got to get it together. You need to go pray. You need to go figure it out. Like, you know, you got work to do. We got work to do. You know, we're already viewed "x" way in society. So having a mental health condition can seem really tough for Black families to , you know, go with and really accept, especially with colonization going on, where a lot of times enslaved Africans were told that they had a mental health condition if they wanted to escape slavery. So having anxiety and depression as a kid, as a result of abandonment and separation in my family and sexual assault I experienced was something that was very foreign for my family to deal with, and they were kind of seeing it as, what do we do? How do we help? While also navigating that stigma of having a child who has, you know, an anxiety disorder at the time. You know, thank you very much for sharing that. And what you talked about in terms of, in the, in the enslaved experience is drapetomania, and drapetomania is something that someone, a medical professional came up with, that, any enslaved person that tried to run away, that they had this, quote unquote disease called drapetomania. Thank you for sharing that. You also shared something in your comments, Nadiyah, in terms of, what you navigate monthly and I'm bringing it up because I think it's something that we don't give enough time to in terms of what that feels like. So not saying you should, but you mentioned it in terms of your navigating your mental health. So I wanted to give space for it. So, thank you for doing that. Caitlyn. Anything you want to add in terms of anxiety and the forms that it, it has revealed itself in, in terms of your lived experience? Yeah, I think I'm actually kind of the opposite of what has been discussed so far. My anxiety was detected very late because I did not have any of the physical symptoms that are so common with anxiety. I think I'm lucky in the sense that I haven't experienced a traditional panic attack. I don't know what it's like to have your heart racing, or to feel the tingling that my friends so often describe, or even the stomach aches or the headaches. None of that ailed me in the way it showed up in my friends as early as like middle or high school when none of us really knew what was going on. And we could support each other by saying, oh, you should tell your parents or oh, you should go to a doctor. But none of us really realized that was anxiety. But I feel like as I learned more about mental health, people were talking about the physical manifestations of anxiety. But I still did not identify with anxiety in that way, and I think it took me until my junior year of college to even receive an anxiety diagnosis, because my anxiety is purely thought based. That's the only symptom of anxiety that I have. But I have it to the point where it is debilitating. When I was in college, I would lie awake in bed at night and ruminate about things that had happened when I was four or five or six years old. I could remember distinct conversations, the way things played out between me and a peer, me and a family member, and I would feel bad about things I had said 20 some odd years ago. And when I first started talking about that, I felt alone in the first sense that I had such good memories from back then because a lot of psychologists would tell me, oh, there's no way you remember that so distinctly from a time when you were in early elementary school or preschool, when I would tell them like, oh, I came home from preschool and something happened to me and I didn't have the words to describe it, but now I think it was anxiety. So I think a very important piece of advice I would give my former self is that anxiety is not always textbook. There are racing thoughts that can occur. There are ruminations that may seem like depression but are really anxiety. And that was what I experienced. And that symptom alone was enough to diagnose me with an anxiety disorder. You know, thank you very much for sharing that, Caitlyn. And actually taking us back in time. And anxiety is not always the textbook. Very much appreciate that. And your colleagues are shaking their heads because it's something that I think all of us, have experienced. And they certainly have. Many of us, throughout our journeys, we experience mental health stigma. NAMI is working to change that, especially with the help of young people like yourselves. We're very intentional with this. Srihitha, you said your advocacy started from your personal experiences as well as supporting communities where mental health is stigmatized. Would you share what makes that a focus for you? Yeah, it's really something I carry personally and stigma is something that I see around me almost every day. I lost my grandfather to suicide, but my family told others in the community and for a while told ourselves that it was a heart attack. So that silence was rooted in stigma and the idea that mental illness is something shameful or taboo. And specifically for South Asian communities, we're often taught to-- Anuj talked about this a little bit before, but we're often taught to prioritize strength, resilience, and family reputation, which can really make it hard to talk about anxiety or anything that feels, quote unquote, ungrateful. So for a long time, I internalized the idea that I just had to push through or keep it to myself. And at the same time, I've been navigating my own struggles with anxiety, disordered eating, and feelings of unworthiness. But instead of reaching out, I stayed quiet. I didn't know how to ask for help, and I didn't want to be a burden on others. And that really is the cost of stigma. It isolates us when we most need support. So when I got to a place like MIT, I realized that I really wasn't alone. And so many of my peers, especially in such a high pressure environment, and especially students of color, were feeling the same way. And so that's how I got involved with our Asian American initiative. Organization on campus, where I now lead, mental health programming that really opens up conversations across generations, languages, and lived experiences. So one thing I try to focus on, in terms of breaking down stigma in spaces, where mental health is often overlooked, is really creating that area for open and transparent conversation, because healing really is collective. And in my experience, it starts with creating room for honesty and especially vulnerability. Thank you very much. And there's strength and vulnerability. There is absolutely strength and vulnerability. And so sorry for the loss of your grandfather. Thank you for sharing that story. And you mentioned three, three kind of statements inside of-- just a powerful statement. Strength, resilience, and almost a family pressure. And that is the false strength, the false resilience and the fall-- you know, from the standpoint of, you know, don't say anything, you know, and in many communities, it's said what happens in the house stays in the house. And no one gets better when you cannot really explore those conversations, and as you wrapped up when you said having those open and transparent conversations. So kudos for what you're doing there at the university. And, you know, this-- the pressures can isolate us if we don't speak up. So I appreciate what you're doing for other young people, and all around you, including your family. So, Caitlyn, I see that in school, you founded a wellness club in response to teen suicide, which launched your interest in youth mental health awareness in education. Can you-- would you tell us a little bit of what you learned about mental health, education, and awareness to help youth? Of course. So I founded the club in response to a series of teen suicides that occurred back to back in my high school. And I saw the need for a safe space where we could come together and talk openly about what had happened, not just with counselors or professionals, but among ourselves. My high school was very much a pressure cooker. A lot of kids were looking to get into Ivy Leagues or schools of a similar caliber, and it was just expected that everyone would go straight from high school to college. There was no breathing room, there was not a lot of time for people to pause and say, is this really what I want? And so I started this club to bring people together and just form a community among a school that I felt was lacking community in a lot of areas. I'm a biracial Chinese-American, and I feel as though I was lacking a space where I felt seen and heard in both of my identities. There were Asian-American in alliance clubs, but they were not as welcoming as I would like them to be. There were other identity clubs, but I didn't feel like there was one space where I felt as though I truly belonged, and I knew mental health advocacy was a space in which I could thrive. But more importantly, I knew this was a space that was needed. And when my grandfather emmigrated to the United States in the late 1920s with nothing but $60 and the American Dream, he really did teach me the importance of finding your community. He had a community in Shanghai that he left, and he had to come here and create one from scratch. And if he could do that, I felt as though I could do this. That's leadership. And thank you. And, to your grandfather who has built that legacy that is now in you, kudos to your grandfather. And as you mentioned, being a Chinese-American, you know, it's about belonging. It is absolutely about belonging. And, what you did with creating that club there, the wellness club, and really striving for mental health education for your peers, kudos to you for that. What impact do you think that learning about mental health specifically for youth, who may be struggling-- what have you seen as some of the benefits of what you did and how it helped your peers. Yeah. When you ask that question, the first phrase that came to mind for me is early intervention. When I was a kid, I had a lot of early intervention services provided to me because they have a neurological condition. So I went through a lot of physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy on a daily basis, just so I could catch up to my typically developing peers. And that experience kind of translated over when I realized that mental health is the same as physical health, in the sense that you want to treat it early. I think prevention is better than a cure. So if you can teach someone about mental health conditions and have them recognize some of the symptoms in themselves and get help before they overtake their lives, I think that is the end goal for me as an advocate. But I also think it's equally important to tell people who are in the depths of their struggle that there is hope. And I think I truly believe in the power of the written word. I truly believe in the power of sharing accurate, culturally competent educational resources because I feel as though there's something in reading that is powerful. You can read to understand, you can read to educate yourself, and sometimes it's easier to gain knowledge from reading than it is from a conversation. Because at least for me, I feel at ease when it's just me and words on a sheet of paper. So I am very much working hard to create those spaces where people can devour information, whether it's through a face to face conversation, which for me I know is more anxiety producing, or just reading information on their own that teaches them about mental health and all the resources that are offered to them. I think both are equally valuable and I strive to create spaces for both things. Caitlyn, thank you very much. And you've teed up another question that I have for your colleagues here, and it's based off of the majors that they've chosen or the doctoral programs or the medical schools. So I'm kind of giving you all a heads up that I'm going to come to you to say-- to ask you about the majors that you've chosen and why you chose them, because what Caitlyn just teed up is the academic piece about reading, about learning about knowledge and then sharing that. So, Srihitha, I want to come to you first. You are studying brain and cognitive sciences and anthropology at MIT. And as we said at the opening, you're the Executive Director of Project No Bounds. So what I'd love you to talk about is why did you choose to study brain and cognitive sciences and anthropology there at MIT? Yeah. So at MIT, brain and cognitive sciences is the fancy word of saying, neuroscience. It's their, it's MIT neuroscience major. But the reason I chose both of these fields of study at the school that I'm at is really this drive to understand people, understand people in the sense of anthropology, where you're physically studying various cultures and how interactions occur in the context of various cultures and histories and movements and behaviors. But also from the neuroscience standpoint, I'm a pre-med student and wanting to explore the field of all aspects of the brain, but in a more medical standpoint. So for me, something that I see as my end goal in terms of a career is something rooted in psychiatry and being able to sort of bridge mental health and advocacy and this understanding of a very underdeveloped but quickly developing field and the ability to sort of meet it where it's at in the field of medicine. So that's a little bit about, for like why I chose the field. And I feel like for neuroscience specifically, it's very interesting in, again, how underdeveloped of a field it is or how new of a field it is, but how rapidly growing it is. And so being able to be at the forefront of various technologies and various, sort of research movements in this field, is very exciting, but also the ability to bridge that with advocacy initiatives and grassroots movements is also very fulfilling. Thank you very much. And kudos to you for choosing neuroscience. And it is a rapidly growing field. And if we think about everything in terms of from the neck up and our brain, we understand all of our other organs, from the lungs to the heart to the kidneys. The brain is that uncharted field that we need to study even more and get into the depths of it. So thank you for choosing neuroscience. So I want to come to Nadiyah now. Anuj, we'll come to you last on this question. So Nadiyah, you are-- you've applied to medical school to become a child and adolescent psychiatrist.

I want to ask you two things: 30:55

why psychiatry and why child and adolescent psychiatry? So, yeah. First, in high school, my two favorite classes was AP psychology and anatomy and physiology. So I was like, oh, like, how can I combine these? And once I went to University of Pittsburgh, I became a neuroscience and psychology major. Because that mind body connection is so strong. And I wanted to really learn about the biological basis of behavior and also about people, you know, what they do, what drives their motivations and their behaviors. And I felt like those two majors really prepared me for that field. And psychiatry is just-- I just want to be the person that I wanted, you know, when I was growing up, as a child, like. I didn't even know what psychiatrists really were until I got into high school. So, you know, I just want to be there, you know, and, you know, meet a lot of kids where they're at. And really, like, Caitlyn was saying, that early intervention. I really believe in that. You know, I feel like psychiatry really gives you that way to connect with people, connect with science, advocate. As we've been said before. And I really see myself working in a juvenile detention center of, like, meeting kids where they're at and just rerouting their lives, so they can live fulfilling lives and realize that trauma doesn't have to stop your life. Or there's one sentence given when you experience trauma or you have, you know, mental health disorders. So, yeah, everybody go psych, you know. Need more psychiatrists. Yeah. There you go. And we're going to come back to that word trauma in a minute. So I want to go to Anuj now and, Anuj, you're applying for a doctoral program in clinical and counseling psychology. Tell us why you chose clinical counseling psychology. Yeah, absolutely. So I actually also began pre-med. So I finished all my pre-med recs. I took organic chemistry, too. And it was lovely. I'm really happy that I have a basis in that knowledge in the biomedical model of mental health. But when I was thinking about my career long-term, I realized that medicine was just not the field for me. And I respect psychiatry. And we just, like Nadiyah said, need more psychiatrists. Absolutely. But I really felt I was called to look at mental health really holistically. So for me, clinical and counseling psychology allows me to explore every area of mental health, and treat patients with a lot of dignity, in interacting with them in a clinical setting, through psychotherapy, through group therapy, right, through these other models of mental health that are so equally valuable to psychiatry. And we need more therapists as well, but we also want therapists who are doing work on a larger scale. So the reason I wanted to pursue a PhD and people often ask, oh, you could have pursued a master's, you could have been a licensed professional counselor or a licensed clinical social worker, right? And I'm like, yes, love them too. And we need more as well. But for me, a PhD allows me to pursue research as well. And research for me is such a true calling and trying to develop community level mental health interventions that promote cultural humility, that connects communities that fight systemic oppression, that look towards all these other factors of mental health that are often overlooked. So for me, it's the idea of wearing multiple hats is that one day I'm a researcher, one day I'm a professor, one day I'm a therapist, another day I'm an advocate. Every day I'm an advocate. But, it's the idea that I get to do everything I want to do and have a lot more flexibility with my field. Thank you. So each one of you, starting with Caitlyn all the way through, you have chosen what is right for you. And you are going to be, the change makers that we need. So we've talked about anxiety. Caitlyn, you mentioned early intervention. We've talked about, being open and transparent. You also mentioned a few things, Nadiyah, about, your anxiety about sometimes being viewed as being standoffish, angry, shy when really all you were trying to do is navigate this space that you weren't familiar with. And we are, to a certain extent and I think, Srihitha, you mentioned something that I wrote down about body image. So, you know, think about all those things that you guys navigate from the standpoint of this cosmetic society. We judge a book by its cover. We don't give time to get into the table of contents in the chapters of each other, you know, so I know that comes with anxiety. I know that comes with, you know, me. Who am who am I and how am I viewed by others? And it also could come with some of these lived experiences that may have, brought trauma into your lives. I don't know, but I did say that I would come back to that operative word, trauma, as you guys had mentioned it, and ask you, is there anything that you want to share about trauma? You didn't know about it, or something that you learned within your community as you have been navigating your journey? Nadiyah. Absolutely. I think something to notice is like, trauma can be intergenerational. I know there's so much research going on about how trauma manifests from generation to generation, and there might be some genetic factors as well in trauma. So it's really important to create an environment where you and your family can have these tough conversations, and be able to have healing. Trauma is a tough thing to work with, and it takes time, you know, and as we said many times that no mental health journey is linear. You know, healing is not linear. And, if you're realizing that I might have trauma from a certain experience, definitely seek out peers that you have, seek out professional help as soon as possible and realize that you are not alone and that you can live a happy and fulfilling life given some unfortunate experiences or adverse childhood experiences that you have had in your life. I want to stay with you on this. Thank you very much. Nadiyah. And our young people here are matriculating through school, so they're not speaking to this audience as medical professionals. Let me say that up front. But what we want them to do is to share their lived experience as young people. So, understand that that's what this is about. So let me stay with you for a second, Nadiyah, as you mentioned, trauma being intergenerational and it can be passed on. How would-- let's just say that I'm a young person and I'm trying to figure out what's going on. How can I slow down and think about some things in my family that can lead me to that "aha" moment? Yeah, it's just viewing some like maladaptive behaviors that might be happening in the family or-- When you say maladaptive, for our audience that doesn't know that word, explain that to them. Yeah. So behaviors that might not be as productive as useful to a situation. You might notice that. Wow. Everybody in my family, when we just-- when we experience conflict, we get very angry. You know, we have a really tough time confronting things in our family. Like, why might that be happening? It might be a specific topic, and it might be just mental health in general that causes people to get up in arms at the dinner table. Why does that occur, you know? And it can be hard as a young adult, too, because very often there's a deference involved and there's authority involved with your parents, but finding the right language or even finding like the right video that can kind of explain what you're saying or writing a letter, you know, the written word, like Caitlyn was saying, of saying like, hey, Mom and Dad, I'm feeling this way. You know, I'm noticing these things in the family. Like, can we have a conversation? Can we talk about this? Can you tell me a little bit about your childhood? Have you ever felt this way before? Or maybe somebody in your family is very trusted in, like, conflict resolution, maybe looping them in to kind of start that conversation? Wow. That's really powerful. Someone in the family that's trusted and or even asking that that mother or father, hey, when you when you were growing up, did you experience or and make it open ended so they can't say yes or no. What was your experience like? You know, something like that. This is really good. So, Srihitha, I want to come to you now. I saw you nodding. Audience might be listening. So, your affirmations of what was being said and wants me to come to you now and have you speak to this a little bit in terms of, what you've seen in terms of, this, this thing called trauma and this other thing that goes with it called anxiety. Yeah. One thing that I've learned about trauma in my community is that it doesn't always look the way that we expect. So in different communities, it can manifest in different ways. For mine, at least in my experience, it can show up as silence. It can show up as hyper independence, or even perfectionism. And like Nadiyah was saying, passed down through, you know, generations without ever being named. And I've seen how many of us, especially in immigrant families, can carry this weight of sort of unspoken pain, whether it's from the migration itself, whether it's from loss or even this pressure to, quote unquote, succeed in a world that doesn't always make space for us. And because mental health hasn't historically been talked about, that trauma can often be internalized instead of processed. But I've also seen sort of with that in mind, how powerful it can be when we do name that trauma, when someone says, this happened to me or this is what I'm feeling, it can create permission for others to sort of reflect and heal too, and that collective unlearning. And relearning is where I see a lot of hope in terms of trauma in communities. Thank you very much. Anuj, I want to come to you now. How has trauma revealed itself to you? How do you speak to it? How do you help others with it? Whatever you'd like to share. And then, Caitlyn, I'm going to come to you to wrap this, this particular topic up, and then we'll go to our next question. Anuj. Yeah, absolutely. I can definitely speak onto what Srihitha just shared in terms of her family and, you know, our shared community. We're both in the South Asian community and looking towards those experiences of migration and maybe our parents or grandparents' generation, but even looking back towards that, right, looking towards trauma around partition. So for folks who don't know, like for a lot of South Asian folks, just in the 1940s, there was a major traumatic event of the partition of India, and India and Pakistan being split into two countries, millions of people losing their lives, trying to cross the border, and a lot of families suffered, but again, suffered in silence. Right? People don't talk about it. And even going back towards there until colonialism and how especially South Asians were having to contort themselves and act in different ways, ways that go against their basic culture and instinct, right? So how that behavior gets passed down from generation to generation, you have to look towards parenting dynamics, right? How family dynamics are going to be organized in, oh, we're going to adhere to this gender norm or this social norm, because if we didn't, right, when colonialism was in full effect, we would have been severely punished. So that's going to triple down. Right? And there's so many other examples. But when I think of trauma, the first thing I love to think about is the idea of having trauma-informed care, moving towards care that respects and honors trauma in all forms. Right? When we think of trauma, a lot of people think of very big events. When trauma exists on a micro level as well. It exists intergenerationally. We can experience trauma without experiencing it ourselves. So having that informed approach in our mental health care is so important. And just shameless quick plug. If you are interested in learning more about trauma, NAMI has a three hour online resource, Trauma Insight, which can really speak towards how trauma can affect especially youth and youth serving mental health professionals, and kind of get a quick intro into what trauma informed care looks like. Trauma Insights. Thank you for sharing that. And no shameless plugs here because it's all about helping others. So anything that you guys want to share that you've seen any resources, that's what we're here for. So thank you. And, it's all about trying to help others. So thank you, Anuj, for that. Caitlyn coming to you. Anxiety, trauma, in terms of your experiences and navigating it, and how you've helped others. What would you like to share in regards to trauma? Yeah, I think I'm very lucky in the sense that I personally do not identify as having experienced any major trauma. With that being said, my grandfather, he emigrated here to escape communism in China. The communists took over in the 1920s, and he was actually on one of the very last cargo ships out of China to America. He came here with $60 and a statue of Buddha and the clothes on his back and the American Dream. That was all we had. We built a life for ourselves from scratch. On the Irish side of my family, there were a couple famines in Ireland which led to periods of mass migration. And my Irish side emmigrated here in order to escape one of those famines. So struggle is deep rooted into my history, but I see also, on the flip side of that, a deep resilience. My family knows how to stick together. We know how to give of ourselves when we don't have much to give. We know that our values are stronger than a lot of families who haven't been through similar hardships. We know how to lift each other up, but we also know how to leave space for each other when we're struggling. And I think there is beauty to be found in trauma. I don't believe that trauma always makes someone stronger. I believe that trauma can, and does hurt people in ways that aren't spoken of. But I also do believe at the same time, in the beauty of the resilience that comes from it. And witnessing trauma in my friends and family has only shown me even more so how resilient people can be. Yeah, thank you very much for sharing that. And, you know, it is about resilience. It's about adaptability and it's about community. And community, and many times is that family structure, coming together, being together and working together and in other places, it is about having that extended community because not everyone has that opportunity to have that connected family. So, that is really cool, Caitlyn, what you shared and what you've been able to experience because of the structure of your family. So, really do appreciate you sharing that. So as we get ready to wrap up, what are one or two things that you each have found that help you with your anxiety? Srihitha? Yeah. So we've been talking a lot about this mind-body connection. So one of the most helpful things I've learned is how much our bodies can sort of guide us back to safety when our minds feel like they're spiraling. So on especially anxious days, I use grounding tools like the five, four, three, two, one method. So naming five things I see, four things I can touch, three things I hear, two things I smell, and one thing I can taste. And it sounds simple, but it's really pulled me out of more moments than I can count. But I would say also, one of the biggest things for me is community. My anxiety thrives in silence. So I've learned to reach out, whether it's a quick text to my friends saying, hey, I'm feeling off today, or, you know, going on a walk with someone I trust. I feel like that human connection really grounds me more than anything else. And reminds me that I'm not alone and I don't have to carry sort of everything by myself. So, I want you to go back, first of all, that I hope our audience heard what you said. You have learned that your anxiety thrives in silence. So you make sure that that's not something that you always have, that silence. Because anxiety, it grows in that petri dish. But you said something else that I wanted to capture. I want our audience to capture. Our body guides us back to... And I didn't get the last part of that. Would you share that again? Yeah. Our body can guide us back to safety when our minds are spiraling. I hope everyone heard that. So, now, let's go to Caitlyn. So, Caitlyn, what have you found helps you navigate your anxiety? Yeah, I think just my family is very big on family values. And I think just reflecting back to the core belief that has carried over across generations, that there is more good in the world than bad. And that extends to people as well. Right? So when we're struggling, there's more good inside us than bad. And while that is not something everyone believes, it is something my grandfather taught me, who taught my mother, who carried it over to me as well. And I really do think that there is power in positive thinking. I know with anxiety disorders we cannot always choose to think positively, but when we can, that's something I always pick, and that helps alleviate my anxiety a lot. Because when I look on the brighter side of things and just see the good in my community and in my support circle, and just in society as a whole, which is hard to do right now, but when you really look for the good in most things, I think my anxiety levels go down. You know, Caitlyn, thank you for sharing that. Looking for the good. And you know, it's no mistake that this podcast is called Hope Starts With Us because that is part of this is making sure that, we are hopeful. It's one of our core values here at NAMI. And it's so critically important that we talk about it. So appreciate that. Anuj, I want to come to you now and ask you the same question. What one to two things that you do help you navigate your anxiety? Yes, absolutely. So for me, with my anxiety, I think that the one thing that's really helped me is recognizing and sharing my light. So I think light is a construct that we can all really hold on to a lot more than some other words that have, you know, a spiritual emphasis to it. Because light is something that inherently all of us have. Right? So even the word "namaste," which is a very common greeting in Hindi, means "my light honors and recognizes the light inside you." So it's the idea that I can see beyond the cover, right? Beyond someone's cover, and really looking towards them and honor and recognize what they are giving to me. And it's this reciprocal relationship. So I'm a mindfulness facilitator and a yoga practitioner, and so I use light very operationally, in whether it's community events, shared practices, as a way for us to connect with each other. So I even started MyJyoti with Jyoti means light in Sanskrit, as a way to share my light with the rest of the South Asian community through sharing stories, honoring our practices, and just creating community with one another. I really loved what Srihitha said earlier that my anxiety really does thrive when it's on its own. When my light is dwindling, right? Because our light gets fueled by each other. And so what helps me really hold on to hope is community. You know what? Thank you for sharing that. And going back to what Srihitha said, I am there because, as she said, anxiety thrives in silence. What you just shared about light, Caitlyn, what you just shared about the family and hope. Yeah. And one of the things I always talk about is I love the industry of people. And I am really good when I am with people. I'm not so good when I'm by myself. So, that's also me, knowing what works for me and what doesn't work for me. And where I go sometimes in terms of when I'm, you know, not in the industry of people because that's where I get my energy, that's where I get my light. So thank you for sharing that. So, Nadiyah, would you wrap this up for us in terms of, you know, what are one or two things that you found help you with your anxiety? I think everybody has already said it. It's really community. A problem shared is always a problem halved. We are not meant to go to this world alone. And you know, you never know, like how, you know, twisted sometimes you might be thinking about your worries and about life until you share it with somebody and they're like, you know, Nadiyah, like everything's going to be all right. Like, you know, reframe it, think about it this way. Maybe saw it from this perspective, but maybe look at it from a different perspective. Two minds coming together is just so powerful. And beyond that, just kind of like moving your body and kind of seeing, like, all the great things nature has to offer. I like to be outside. I like to take a walk and just, just see all of creation. Sometimes that is very grounding for me. When there's times that there might not be people around, but I really need to just bring myself back and just remind myself that everything will be okay and that there is hope. There is absolutely hope and thank you. And nature can be helpful with that. And in nature there is light. So, this, this is really very powerful. So, you know, one of the other things is that as we, you know, plugs, and that shamelessly but shamelessly, we have support groups and we have programs that, bring people into the conversation that may have been in isolation, navigating this by themselves. All of a sudden they go to one of our support groups, and there's someone sitting across the table that has a similar experience, and all of a sudden they know, oh my gosh, I'm not alone. So, you know, that's that, problem halved, as Nadiyah mentioned, because now all of a sudden you're in a community that you're hearing that what you felt you were experiencing just by yourself is something that others are experiencing. Where I want to take us to is also we have something called NAMI On Campus. And that's where young people that are matriculating through college, many times can come together, in terms of, having a shared community to talk about their mental health. So, just another asset, another tool in the toolbox, and on many campuses. And we'll see it grow over the years. So in closing, you know, one of the things that we do, as we conclude, is we ask a question of every one of our guests, and this is the question. The world can be a difficult place, and sometimes it can be hard to hold on to hope. That's why with each episode, we dedicate the last couple of minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold On to Hope. Now, so I'm just going to ask each one of you, what helps you hold on to hope? And I'm not going to select you. You select in on this one. Who wants to go first? I can go because you kind of already answered that question for me just a few minutes ago when you were speaking about NAMI and all the resources they had to offer. I joined my local NAMI in 2020-- I'm going to mess this up, 2022. Right after my hospitalization, I was at my lowest point ever. I was trying new medications, waiting for them to kick in, and one of my mom's friends directed us towards NAMI because her daughter had used their services. So I joined the NAMI Connections Recovery Group and it was very helpful. It was the first time I felt as though I was not alone in a mental health setting. I had therapy, but that to me was not the same thing as peer support. So having both of those aspects of my life fall into place as I was waiting for the clinical side of things to even out gave me a lot of hope. I'm also very hopeful knowing that if I ever do hit that low point again, NAMI is still here. All of those resources that I accessed the first time don't just magically disappear. So knowing that I now have the foundation for what to do if I hit that crisis level again is very helpful. Caitlyn, that is fantastic. Thank you very much. Anuj, what would you like to offer to us in terms of, what helps you hold on to hope? Well, I was already going to volunteer myself because I really wanted to piggyback off Caitlyn, and that what helps me hold onto hope is storytelling. And my first opportunity to tell my story of my mental health was through NAMI, through my local NAMI Saint Louis. And when I was in undergrad, I shared my story with middle and high school students, and it really got the ball rolling in terms of my advocacy journey. And now I'm here as a NAMI Next Gen member. I think that sort of progression is exactly what we look for at NAMI, and I'm so happy that I get to share my story even more broadly, and even through MyJyoti, we have a storytelling platform on Instagram, and I think the power of hearing other people's story is just so powerful, and we can really create more empathy for one another. We can really look beyond the cover, right? We can dive into each other's books, and I'm happy to share my story here today. Thank you, thank you. So who wants to go next? What helps me hold on to hope is just realizing that my name means hope. I kind of have no choice."Nadiyah" means hope. And just remembering that is very reassuring. And also what my peers were saying, that vulnerability is so big, and when you see people being vulnerable and telling their stories, it really shows their passion. They're change makers. You can see that there's so many other people in your community who are willing to do the work, to give hope, and to make this place a better one. You know, my faith gives me hope. And as we've been saying, this entire podcast, community, community, community, it's strength in numbers and seeing somebody else who had a similar journey to you in a great space is so reassuring, and it gives me hope. Thank you so much, Srihitha Bring us home. Yeah. For me, it's two things. I hold on to hope by reminding myself first that healing isn't linear, and that's completely okay. But most of all, in addition to what Anuj, Caitlyn, and Nadiyah said, I find hope in young people. We're not just sharing our stories, but we're also building, you know, systems of care. We're leading policy conversations, and we're reshaping what mental health support looks like in our schools, in our communities and beyond, and hope really lives in that collective in the idea that change doesn't just come from the top down, but from the ground up. And every time a young person speaks up, organizes, or even just holds space for somebody else, it reminds me that the future we're building is already in motion. Wow. I have to tell you that, having you all as a part of NAMI Next Gen and at the table influencing, and helping to build our voice is so incredibly important. You are the leaders of today, and even more so tomorrow. And we just want to make sure that this space is here for you to do what you're doing so that we can continue to build. And so that was an excellent way, to, bring this all together. Healing is not linear. It is young people, and change from the ground up. And then, Nadiyah, as you mentioned, your name, hope you're like, what do you mean? That's what my name means. Anuj, what you shared. And Caitlyn-- and what you shared all the way back to getting into the to the to the chapters of the books and actually meeting people where they are. And Caitlyn, what you shared in terms of how you came to experience NAMI and knowing that NAMI is there for you going forward. So you guys have wrap this up into a really nice bow, and I just want to say thank you for doing that. And we're going to wrap up now and I'm going to, just close by saying the following. This has been Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. If you are looking for mental health resources, you're not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit NAMI.org/help. Text "helpline" to 62640 or dial 800-950-NAMI (6264). Or if you are experiencing an immediate suicide, substance abuse, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. I'm Dan Gillison, your host. Thank you for joining us and please be well.