Hope Starts With Us
Hope Starts With Us
Faith and Compassion in Mental Health Featuring Christian Bentley
The relationship someone has with their faith community can have a big impact on their mental health journey. In this episode, NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. and Christian Bentley discuss how Christian’s Catholic faith and community have helped him navigate the bipolar 1 disorder diagnosis he received. Their conversation explores how self-acceptance and how inclusion, compassion, and care contribute to how he manages his own mental health – and how these values could help others on their journey, too.
You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.
"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.
Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.
If you are a person with lived experience and you are in a healthy space, your voice is expert. Your experience is expert. And no decision or program should ever be built without having the voice of a lived experience at the table. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. My name is Dan Gillison and I'm your host and the CEO of NAMI. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. All of us. Here are five reasons. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories. And hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us, as I mentioned earlier. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone.
The theme today:relationship between faith, community, and mental health care. Our guest is Christian Bentley. Interfaith community engagement and advocacy, Catholic mental health and social justice presenter and speaker, and lives with bipolar one disorder. I had the wonderful opportunity, the blessing, to meet Christian at an event that was held at the church through our affiliate, Northern Virginia ED, Rebecca. And Rebecca was partnering with the church, and I had the opportunity to meet and listen as Christian moderated a wonderful discussion and panels. So it's our opportunity now to talk to Christian. So, Christian, I just want to say thanks for joining the podcast today. And the event that you moderated,"Mental Health in the Black Community," was so incredibly profound. So before we dive into our conversation about faith, community, and mental health care, would you share your story with our listeners? And as you share that story, what experience has help you become a mental health advocate? Certainly. Well, very happy to be here with you, Dan. And I'll try to bullet point it, right? There's so many things that went into the journey. But I would say first, in my late 20s, I hit a very severe low period that resulted. I lost my job, several hospitalizations. This was the first time I'd ever experienced what I would have considered at the time being mental health issues. And that culminated to a very serious suicide attempt that landed me in the hospital. But each time I went to the hospital because, I guess because I was articulate, because of whatever my background was, I kept getting these,"Oh, you're just depressed. It's circumstantial." Not a true, real diagnosis. In that experience, I really saw how degrading our healthcare system could be at times, and how we communicated and treated those who were dealing with mental illnesses or life situations. Fast forward, I did finally get a diagnosis after a little over a year of really struggling with extreme lows with bipolar one. Looking back on my life, the diagnosis made complete sense. But it is really tough getting that diagnosis. At first when I heard it, I was like, okay, great, I'm going to be crazy for the rest of my life. How am I going to work? How am I going to exist? Am I going to take care of my family? And my doctor at the time, like, God bless him, I was sent like him. He said, Christian, this is not a death sentence. There are so many people who live with this illness and live well. CEOs, politicians, actors, actresses. And you can do this. You've just got to be really committed to being well. And then started the journey of finding out what medications work. In 2018, I went into an extreme manic. A scarier than life manic where I literally lost time, memory, erratic behavior landed me in a criminal justice system. Went through that and experience what that was like as a mentally ill person. Trying to make decisions for myself while being in a manic--and the manic was induced by a medication. It just was one that didn't work for me. I saw all of these injustices. I had enough talk and sense in awareness to see that our criminal justice system was flawed, to see that our healthcare system was flawed, the dignity. And at the time, I think the worst experience dealing with any of that was, I was a part of, a religious community, and at the time, I was seeking help, you know. I felt like I was losing my mind. And I went to them and asked for help and the response from this person was, well, isn't it true that you tried to kill yourself? And I responded, yes. And they said, well, what are we supposed to do for you? And that was such a dagger. I mean, out of all the things that I had been going through over the years, that was the moment that really just hit me like a ton of bricks. And once I was able to heal from that, that is where the advocacy, was born out of. Christian, your story is absolutely incredible, and I just want to sit on it for a second from the standpoint of what you've shared, because there's so much strength in you sharing your story and your vulnerability. Thank you so much. And I remember as I was listening to you moderate the panel, that, to your point about as you were in the hospital and you know, folks at the hospital saying he's so articulate, this and that. They're not giving you that diagnosis. I remember very distinctly the panel. You shared your story at the end of the panel. So I thought about it and I said, you know, we as a society, we judge books by its cover. We don't get into the table of contents and the chapters. And the other thing we look at is that we have someone that is navigating a mental health issue and opportunity. And if they get into the criminal justice system, it's very hard to pivot back into the mental health system. How did that work for you pivoting back, because you mentioned that in 2018 you ended up in the justice system. How did you navigate that part? And I also want to thank you for sharing what happened to you in your late 20s, because we have so many young people that are navigating the same thing in terms of losing a job, and what's happening with them and the dark place they go. So thank you for doing that. But share with us, how did you navigate from the justice system to the mental health system, and all of it come together for you? Well, fortunately, I was already seeking treatment during the time that I had my run in with the criminal justice system. So I did have that connection. And I hate to say this because so many people don't have this luxury, is I had a community. I had an employer at the time who knew my character and stood by me and was like, we're here for you. We're going to get through this. We're going to help you. And it was my community advocating for me that got me through. I wish I did something, but I really didn't. At the time, I made a plea deal, which I completely regret. But I was in no way, shape, or form at the capacity to make any type of life altering decisions. And that really stuck out to me during the time, and most certainly afterwards, which is a lot of the work that I'm doing now. But I think it was my community advocating for me, my family, making sure that I stayed connected to therapy, staying connected to medication, even though, you know, medication was a very hard reality for me. It still is. And so, yeah, it was my community that really helped me. And I recognize how fortunate I am that I had that at the time. So, thank you again. And you're going to hear me say thank you many times here because this is a powerful conversation. We're having a conversation here. So, Christian, the other thing that I have been able to observe in my short time of getting to meet you is that there's a construct of community that you have brought to your work in terms of, you're connecting the dots and you're bringing all these different enterprises into to providing help for others. Can you talk about what Christian is doing in community in terms of mental health as an advocate? Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I learned in my journey to wellness, right? It was a journey to get to a point where I could say, oh, I'm existing in wellness at the moment. I could not have done any of it without community. And even though I had "church hurt," right, from that initial response from that religious leader at the time, it really was a grounding of faith, and the deep belief in the inherent dignity of every single person, that no matter what, we're all the Imago Dei, we're all create it in the image of God, and nothing can change that. And I spent a lot of time doing meditation. I always say, if I was born in a different generation, I would have been a philosopher because I could just sit and think all the time. But I thought, you know what? When someone has cancer, their dignity doesn't change, when someone has diabetes, their dignity doesn't change, when someone has heart disease, their dignity never changes. Our community doesn't treat them any differently. Why then, does the dignity of the person with schizophrenia or the person with bipolar or depression, why does that their dignity seem to change? Why do why do people get irritated with them because of their health issue? Could you imagine someone say, well, I've got a diagnosis of kidney cancer. Imagine being irritated with them. Oh, well, we got to deal with you again. We wouldn't even dream of that. But with someone with mental illness, our fuse is really short. And so, navigating my own wellness, I saw that number one, a lot of people weren't talking about it at the time when I got started. Now it's a great discussion, which is fantastic. But the discussion needed to be there. And so the first choice that I made, and I remember everyone thought I was wild for doing this, is I started telling everyone I manage a bipolar one disorder, and managing expectations and what that work relationship, what that friendship, what that familial relationship would look like. And I actually found it freeing. Everyone was like, well, what do you think--people are going to think you're crazy. Well, actually, what people did was the opposite of that. They said, oh, wow, thank you so much for telling me. If there's something I could do, let me know. And so when days came out that I didn't feel well, or if the night before I didn't sleep well, I could send an email saying like, hey, I'm so sorry, can we reschedule our day today? I'm not feeling well. No worries, Christian. Take care of yourself. The second thing that happened is that people started opening up. Oh, wow. You know, my mom struggled. Or parent or sibling, a family member or relative, a loved one. I wish that they would have been able to embrace it. They probably could have gotten some help. Then my phone started ringing at all hours of the night and text messages. Hey, do you think you could kind of talk to my son or my daughter? Or could you talk to my husband? I think they should get some help and talk to somebody. But they're--they don't want anybody to know what's going on. And so by default of my living in the open, I became a resource in my community of people finding a safe space to talk about their mental health, to talk about the mental health of their loved ones, and really being a proponent for, it's okay to get help. And that has just created bridges to community to organizations and network associations to make sure that we're providing healthy resources to people who are struggling and their family members or their friends or their loved ones who are helping to take care of them. Yeah. Christian, you, again, it's just very profound, as I remember that evening, and as I think about your story and as we hear about your story and that "church hurt," if I can go back to the script a little bit because it's for our audience, I did go off the script. But I want to go back to that a little bit. What I'm hearing from your story, that your faith, the Catholic faith, supports your healing journey, and gives you guidance. I know that you're also a presenter and speaker on social justice in addition to your mental health advocacy. Would you share how those pieces of your lived experience impact you on a day to day basis? Certainly. So there's a wonderful Black Catholic nun, named Sister Thea Bowman, who is on her way to becoming a saint in the Catholic Church. And she has a very well-known phrase that she says, "I show up as my full self, fully functioning." And so I bring all of my experiences, my journey, my stories, my hurt, my vulnerability to every table that I'm invited to or that I make space at, because sometimes you have to do that. And so I think I just show up as a full person, and that means I show up with my imperfections and I show up with honesty. And that has just created very authentic relationships and has built very authentic change. I think especially in the Black community, for Black men to open up and talk about their emotions, to talk about their mental health, to talk about how that affects being a parent, how that affects being a spouse, how does that affect being a son? All of those complexities of life that are directly tied to how we're doing. You know, we all have mental health. We know that. But there's a difference with a mental illness. It is a chemical imbalance that the person has very little control over. I don't get to wake up in the morning and say, where are my chemicals today? Those are the things that medication helps us to regulate, and diet, and exercise routine. But people don't control where their chemicals are. And so, you know, there's so much stigma around that. But also just so much breaking. So rather it's working on police reform or rather it's working community organizing and advocacy, talking about social justice. All of it talks about meeting people where they're at, which is the dignity they have as a human being. And then we have a teaching that's called the preferential option for the vulnerable and the poor. And so that's a key factor of the theme of Catholic social teaching. And so you know, with the stigma that happens with the overincarceration of people with mental illness, they are so vulnerable. You know, I use the phrase, we use the phrase a lot "our brothers and sisters." Our brothers and sisters are so vulnerable because of the stigma around managing and living with mental illness. Yeah, that that that is so true. And, you know, again, I think through--and Sister Thea Bowman is just fantastic. And as you just talked about bringing your full self and as we look at those that are in the justice system and that vulnerability is absolutely incredible. It's painful. It's hard to see. It's also hard to experience. And as I was at the event that the NAMI Northern Virginia affiliate put together, the other thing that I found so profound was that, well, now I've been to two events. I went to another event that you had there at the church. We had law enforcement there. Law enforcement is a part of the solution. And I wanted to ask, how did this faith-based organization, the Catholic Church there in Arlington, bring in law enforcement as a part of this solution as we just talked about the over-criminalization of those in the justice system. I found that very interesting. Yeah. At Saint Joseph's Catholic Church, in Alexandria. Alexandra. Excuse me. That's okay. Arlington's right next door. In Alexandria, we truly believe in solidarity. We're staffed by a religious order of priests called the Josephites. The Josephite priests were established to care for the newly freed slaves and their descendants, an order that's still servicing, and ministering to the African-American community today. And so it's all about, we are one human family. Whatever our national, racial, ethnic, economic, or ideological differences may be, we walk in solidarity. So for our community that looks like participating and giving food, rental assistance, utility assistance, helping people. And so the conversation, well, we can't just care for their immediate needs. We also have to care for, what are the societal structures that are creating these injustices, and how can we participate in that? So we do that through community organizing, through working on getting laws repealed, like, if you don't pay a court fine, your license gets suspended in the state of Virginia. We joined other faith communities in getting that law changed in Virginia because it was adversely affecting the most poor and vulnerable citizens in our community. And so that led to having partnerships with our public safety officers, our police department, our sheriff department. And it's very interesting. We have a beautiful community. And in Alexandria, Virginia, our sheriff is an amazing gentleman who's very committed to helping and serving the community the best way possible. Along with our, police department. They want it to come to the table. As a matter of fact, the sheriff said, "I run the biggest mental health institution in the city." And he was referring to the jail. He was-- if my people were at, if our citizens, our neighbors, our people, our folks actually got the help that they needed, I could see where they wouldn't be in my jail. And so that's, that type of outreach, we all get together once a quarter. It's convened by a beautiful organization called Concerned Citizens Network of Alexandria that's ran by the executive-- the current executive director, retired Colonel Jim Page.
And we convene everybody:city officials, faith community members, community leaders, business owners, elected officials, once a quarter. What are we working on? How are we taking care of the mental health of our community? And it really has created a partnership, where we're able to promote genuine wellness in our city. Yeah. It's incredible. I got to-- Colonel Jim Page retired as you remember, at the event there, that first event, he is, just an incredible force. He assertively invited me to that quarterly meeting. And I remember attending that that quarterly meeting, and one of the first people there was the public safety leadership. And then there was someone from Chesapeake, Virginia, that had driven up, and then all of these business leaders were there and community leaders. And you had therapists that were there. It was a whole tapestry that you brought there in Alexandria, so the concerned citizens are there at the table listening to solutions, providing solutions, helping each other out. The biggest thing for me, Christian, is this looks like leadership. This looks like leadership. And it looks like leadership at work. What would you say from the standpoint of sharing the model that you have there in Alexandria and for anyone listening, if they were looking to do something similar in their community? Yeah, I think the first thing is to recognize that, if you are a person with lived experience and you are in a healthy space, your voice is expert. Your experience is expert. And no decision or program should ever be built without having the voice of a lived experience at the table. You know, you can theoreticize and make up all these things all day long, but you really need to go to the source to see how it's effective. And I think that's the beauty. The community is welcoming to my lived experience. And sometimes that means being critical. That means being critical of how police officers talk to individuals with mental illness. Sometimes that means being critical of how our health care system is, we have representatives there from Inova, which is a major hospital network that are there in the room. And sometimes I've offered criticism about how their network is talking to people or something that I've experienced. Also, the police department, if I see them pick up someone or notice an interaction that was not okay. And so, I can address things and see things from a different perspective that other people can't. I think that's very valuable. So number one is get people with lived experience who are healthy, get them at the table and allow them to have-- not allow them, but they need to be your experts. They need to be the same level that we view psychiatrist and psychologist and therapists and clinicians and social workers and case managers, that same level is where we need to view people with lived experience. And I think that it naturally happens when someone steps into the role and says, we have to do better for our community. And this became a major issue for us during the Covid lockdown when everyone's mental health was front and center. Oh, wow. This is not okay. So after that immediate need, it went to oh, wow, we have neighbors, we have folks, we have brothers and sisters who live with this type of isolation, who live with these type of thoughts every day, and we've ignored them. How do we come together to serve them? So I think the leadership of people with lived experience coupled with partners who, for lack of a better expression, and give a damn. And if you just start there, if you just start there, and I think that looks like having coffee, you know, I think that this looks like sitting down and maybe having coffee with someone and learning how to accompany them, learn how to talk to them, learn how to journey with them and be where they are. We do this with racial healing. We do this with economic injustice. We do this with survivors of sexual assault. We do this at Alcoholic Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous. There's all these peer structures to help people. But in mental health, even though efforts are being made, it's still something that's very dark and in the closet. We haven't fully embraced it as a community. So I think that's where leadership has to start. And embracing accompaniment. Yeah. And as you began your journey representing Alexandria and the community, if you will, were there any naysayers? Did you have to, you know, kick any doors down? I mean, how has it been for you with lived experience? Yeah, it was really rough. I can think from just maybe three different lanes. One was because I had been through the criminal justice system, and I refused to allow that to define me. The second was, oh, well, you can't rely on crazy people. You know, someone actually said that to my face in a community meeting. And then the third was rejection from my own community. So why are you always talking about that? And why has everything got to be about that? You shouldn't have people in your business and, you know, and recognize that they were coming-- one, I had to really dig deep and kind of, I told you I like to think a lot and have empathy from where they're coming from. People who were saying those things weren't coming from a hateful space towards me. They were coming from their own hurt and their own lived experience about how they've seen people be treated or how when they've talked about their emotional health, because they don't want to say the word mental, how they were rejected. And so there's this hurt and this fear, that came from that. I will say it was very sad to me to learn that there were people in my own family who had committed suicide that I didn't know about. That there were people who dealt with mental health issues in my family that I didn't know about until I became open and started talking about things. It created an avenue for conversation. And then the other thing was which clinicians, you know, they really, they feel that they are the cat's meow, the bee's knees, and they know everything. And, I know better than you. And it's a very colonized mindset that had that I don't have the awareness and the dignity to speak for myself. I've argued and fought with doctors because I want to know what are the side effects of medication before I take them. And I want a full disclosure, and I've been completely dismissed, of you just need to take your medication, which is unacceptable. And it also makes me think if someone isn't as strong of an advocate for themselves, if they don't have the education and the socioeconomic status to stand up for themselves and push back, this is how they're treated and they just take it. And I you know, I've heard from so many people in the community that they know they need medication to help them to live a life of wellness, but they don't because of the horrific experiences they've had with medication. And there was no one there to journey and accompany them on what that process should look like. And so, because this medication made me feel a certain way, or did something to me, or made me feel numb, or took me outside of my mind, or caused a manic like my antidepressant did. They're like, oh no, I'm done. I'm never doing that again. But they are still dealing with the side effects and the repercussions of not living well. That is it. Not living well. And it almost is about having a peer navigator and having someone to work with them. And, and I just think that at NAMI and if I can go back for a second to what you were saying about being the expert and having lived experience at the table, our charter says 75% of our board must be represented of a lived experience. And one of our mantras is "nothing about us without us." You should not be having these discussions, these decisions being made without having the peers at the table with the lived experience. And that's pretty much the model that we follow. And right now, 100% of our board has lived experience. So we walk the talk and I really love what you said. And nothing about us without us. This peer navigation is so important. Christian, in your travels--I would love to meet one or two more like Christian, but I've only met one. There's only one Christian. Are you mentoring any other people to do the work you're doing? And full disclosure, I've been taught by the Josephites and the Jesuits, as well as the Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament. So that's my background for our audience. So I wanted to disclose that. So, Christian, you know, because, you know, this is about leadership, this is about tone, and this is about execution. And Alexandria is so far ahead of other communities. It's pretty impressive. Very blessed to live in Alexandria. And I do feel that there's a spiritual connection to the saint or the ancestors. So I'm a 10th generation Alexandrian. So my family's lived in Alexandria since the 1700s. And so they've laid to groundwork to build in this community that I get to enjoy today. So I do feel like my organizing and my outreach and effort are a way of me continuing the legacy that my family left for me in Alexandria. But yeah, no, they're a great organization. So I want to name two from within the Catholic Church. One is the National Catholic Partnership on Disability. And we have a Council on Mental Illness and Wellness, and that council produced a pastoral response to mental illness that is such a beautiful, easy, small booklet to use on how to accompany those who are either living with a mental health issue or their family members. There's a guide of how to, you know, help people with suicide. But this comes from a from a Catholic faith lens. And then there's also a newly formed Association of Catholic Mental Health Ministers that's been around for a couple of years now that they're doing conferences, they're connecting clinicians and practitioners and people with lived experience and people who just want to stand in solidarity with the community that's been isolated and shunned and hurt so often. So in those organizations, there are definitely leaders that are beautiful. One amazing person in the Catholic Church is, there's the Bishop of Phoenix whose name is escaping me right now, which is terrible. But, you know, he openly talks about his own journey with mental health within himself and his family and even taking a sabbatical at one point from the priesthood so that he could take care of himself. And now he's the bishop, and he's such a loving, kind, amazing man. And so there are great leaders who are standing up and doing things, but I just want to go back real quick, Dan, to your point about peer navigators. That is so important. I mean, I bring up Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, who have a great program of helping people, get to a healthy stance in their life to not be addicted to things. What is the key to their success is you are with a peer. You're with somebody who knows that, who maybe not knows exactly what you're going through, but it's been there. They got the story. And so but in our in our clinical packages that we give people who are balancing and managing mental health, there's no system in place for peer navigator or peer support specialist depending on where you live. Without community, wellness is very hard to manage. I mean, wellness is hard to manage when you have the perfect doctor and medication that works and a quote unquote stress free life. And it's still hard to manage wellness. But if you take out that community, that person that can accompany and journey with you on what it's like to go through a medication change, the fears of starting a new job, things that only people with lived experience will truly fully understand what it's like to go through. We have to make that. In the United States of America and the world, we have to make peer navigation and peer support an actual part of someone's health care plan for mental health. That's my dream, because that's how we get people to really achieve wellness. So I would like you to share that statement with the audience one more time. I think it needs to be articulated one more time. Your dream is... My dream is that our mental health care system will incorporate peer navigators or peer support specialists in their wellness plan for people who are balancing and managing mental illness. It is critical to have a support person, to have someone that can accompany and journey with you on the road to wellness. On the road to wellness. I want to ask you, and one of the things that NAMI also does is we have our support groups and we have our programs. One of those is Family-to-Family. It's where you go into a situation where you think you're the only one, and all of a sudden you're sitting across the table from someone that is experiencing the same thing. You say, oh my gosh, I'm not, I'm not alone. We believe you are not alone. And, we like to meet people where they are, not where we want them to be. So this is so tangible. And you know, one of the things we say is that, people at NAMI have turned their pain into their purpose and purpose becomes their passion. Passion, Christian, you lead this from the from the lived experience lens, you lead it from the academic lens in terms of your learning, and you lead it with your passion. People who have the level of passion and understanding that you do can sometimes get exhausted. What do you do for self-care? For Christian Bentley? You know, self-care for me is very rooted in my faith, very, very rooted in my faith. We have beautiful prayers, one of them being the rosary, which I try to pray daily. It's an opportunity to meditate. We also have a beautiful prayer services, adoration, going to mass. That has been a huge part of my life. And, in liturgy, gospel music, which is soul staring, right? I mean, it's one of the beautiful gifts of the Black church is gospel music and being able to sometimes not having the words but being able to process emotions with music is very, very helpful. And scripture, you know. A couple of my favorite ones that I just pulled up, to share with with folks, the experience at Mark, chapter five, where Jesus heals a man that's suffering from the demons, and he shows compassion and restores that man's dignity. And Matthew 11, when Jesus says, "come to me, all you who are weary, and I will give you rest." I think of the psalmist where he says, "the Lord is close to those who are broken hearted." Genesis 1, where we're all made in the likeness and image of God. And then in Hebrews 4, where Jesus is not distant from us and he shares in our weaknesses. My faith definitely gives me a firm foundation that I am important and that my life matters. I'm blessed to have a beautiful, supportive family who have been with me on the roller coaster of my mental health journey. And it's a roller coaster, you know, and some days are high and some days are low, and my big saying is you got to stay on the roller coaster. I think sometimes we who live with mental illness, we're so busy trying to get off the roller coaster to avoid our symptoms. And sometimes you just have to sit with it and ride it out in a safe manner. And so they've been there with me. And then doing things that kind of cut me out of some bad habits, you know. Sometimes in a good way, people can use their phone or TV, as a distraction to kind of maybe get out of their mind and you get into this doom scrolling. So I've really gone back to, you know, touching books and paper and turning the paper, writing and walking and gardening and whatever I can do to really touch something that's real to stay grounded. But I'll also tell you that being an advocate and being a leader in the mental health community also keeps me accountable because my wellness is so important, because it's also my work, and people are relying on me. Now, that's a delicate balance because some days it can be very overwhelming. And I draw the curtains and I set the away message on my email, and I have to recluse myself like, okay, rest. But most days and most of the time it's a beautiful motivator to stay well, to make good decisions, to check in with myself, to be grounded, because people are relying on me. And that does help. And that's another beautiful tool to helping folks stay wellness. If you give someone who's achieved wellness and they're not in crisis and they've worked through this, and you give them the responsibility, that helps them stay well. It helps make it a priority in their lives. It's a beautiful balance. It is an incredible balance. And you, you are such, a leader. And you're making such a difference in the community. And it's been a pleasure talking with you. And as we wrap up, we always end with one last question. But before I go to that question and that prompt, is there anything you would like the audience to know that I did not ask you in the questions? Yeah. I would say, this one thing, whether it's a family member or a friend or coworker neighbor, listen to someone's story. Listen to their story, find out how they got there. You know, we're so quick, as you said, to judge a book by its cover. But if we stop and find out how did this person get their, then maybe we can accompany them on their journey of healing. And so I look at that from a criminal justice standpoint, you know, and talking with people. And I travel a lot and I do a lot of workshops and presentations. And so I get to really engage with people, and a lot of them are just really hurt. And they're carrying generational baggage, and they've never had the space to really fully deal with what's happened to them in life. And so then they act out and the way that they know how, and sometimes that lands them in jail. We know about the inequity of our society when it comes to our criminal justice system. So just going to the story, going to each person's story can really help us have compassion for them, break down the stigma and then journey with them towards healing, and then let them come out and experience wellness and be-- Everyone wants purpose. Everyone wants to be valued in their community. And this is how we can help every single person. We can be in solidarity with them. But most importantly, we can uphold their dignity. Yeah. Thank you very much, Christian, because we do, many times we address the symptoms and we don't get to the root cause, you know, a lot of times that root cause can be vicarious trauma that we kind of have packaged as ACES, adverse childhood experiences. But that's part of listening to the story and really getting to the story and not really trying to address that symptom. But what is it? What's the root cause? So this is so powerful. So the last question is one that that we ask every one of our guests at the wrap up. The world can be a difficult place, and sometimes it can be hard to hold on to hope. That's why with each episode, we dedicate the last couple of minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold On to Hope. Christian. What helps you hold on to hope? I think what helps me hold on to hope the most, there's an old gospel song that says "my living shall not be in vain." Not to be dark, Dan, in no way shape or form. At some point this life is over. At some point, you know, I hope that I'm a very old man and I'm surrounded by loved ones. But when that moment happens, I want to look back and say that my life was not in vain. And there's a verse in that song that says, "if I can help somebody as I travel along, if I can help somebody with the word or a song, then my living shall not be in vain." And so my hope is in my community. My hope is every day people are doing amazing, fantastic things. Rather, it's given ten bucks to the guy on the corner who want a coffee and a breakfast sandwich. Rather, it's holding a child that just lost a parent. Rather, it's sitting with someone who can't articulate their emotions and just letting them cry. There are amazing things that are happening every single day in our community. People are touching people's lives. We are doing what we're supposed to do. We are. And I want to thank Rebecca Kiessling and, Colonel Jim Paige for the opportunity to meet you. I would not have met you if it had not been for Rebecca, our executive director for NAMI Northern Virginia, and Colonel Jim Page. And I consider it just an incredible honor to talk with you and to know you and to know of your work, Christian. And I mean that sincerely. So thank you so very much. And I appreciate what you've shared today. So as we wrap up, just want to tell our audience, this has been Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. NAMI FaithNet is an interfaith resource network of NAMI members, friends, clergy, and congregations of all faith traditions who wish to encourage faith communities who are welcoming and supportive of persons and families living with mental illness. Get involved at NAMI.org/FaithNet. If you are looking for mental health resources, you're not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit NAMI.org/help, text "helpline" to 62640 or dial 800-950-NAMI(6264). Or if you are experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. I'm Dan Gillison, your host. Thank you for being with us and be well.
