How Food Nourishes Mental Well-being Featuring Carla Hall

Every one of us has taken solace in “comfort food” before and knows how much what we eat can impact our moods. In this episode, NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. speaks with Carla Hall, a chef, host, and author. After recently participating in an episode of Celebrity Family Feud benefitting NAMI, Carla joined Dan to talk about her mental health journey and current projects, as well as how food can support mental well-being and keep memories alive.

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.

Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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So it's one thing to break bread together. It is another thing to make bread together. We have a responsibility to put all of this goodness in the food because it starts with us. And if we put the love in the food, when the people eat it, they will taste it and they will come back. There is this transference of love and joy and bringing people together. And I full, wholeheartedly believe that. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI. The National Alliance on Mental Illness. I'm your host, Dan Gillison, NAMI's CEO. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us, all of us. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories, and hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. All starts with all of us. Hope is a collective and we hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone. So today we have an incredible guest, Carla Hall. Carla was a competitor from Bravo's Top Chef and Top Chef All Stars, spent seven years co-hosting ABC's Emmy Award winning popular lifestyle series, The Chew, and currently featured on the Food Network in shows such as Thanksgiving, Holiday, and Halloween Baking Championships as a judge and Worst Cooks in America. Carla has also written three cookbooks and has received the NAACP Image Award. Carla, it is so incredibly nice to see you, and it was really special to meet you in New Orleans at Taste of the NFL. NAMI is really thrilled to be talking to you and for you to talk to our listeners. And there's so many people talking about mental health and sports. We're pleased to be going to San Francisco, and we hope to see you there again. At taste of the NFL. Can you share with our audience what has turned you into a mental health advocate? Well, most recently, my nephew, has challenged us in mental illness, and my sister was the one who told me about NAMI. And, so she's been sort of his advocate and partner and dealing with his struggles for the last number of years. But I want to say, when I was on Top Chef and you're in a stressful situation, I remember thinking, I have to become comfortable with the uncomfortable and, you know, just expecting to perform or to deliver in a stressful situation. It was a spiritual exercise for me because leading up to it, just spiritually, and my faith being there on Top Chef, I remember being in front of the judges, and my heart is literally beating out of my chest. And I remember looking at Padma and I was like, wait, no one has actually expired here. So what is the worst thing that could happen? And I remember just standing in my body and stealing the stress and saying, where do I feel it? And then and then I said, okay, I have to become comfortable with the uncomfortable. And I remember--and I've taken that through my life. And that was 19 years ago. So, that was the first time that I said, let me let me just bring everything together and put things into perspective. Thank you for sharing that and starting off with your sister and your nephew. You know, NAMI is an organization that is the largest grassroots mental health organization in the US that was started by moms in 1979. So for your sister to speak with you in regards to your nephew and you mentioned her advocacy. That's how we started, as an advocacy organization started by moms. And yeah, the dads were around that kitchen table at that first meeting, but the moms were the advocates, so thank you. And then as you brought this full circle in terms of you're on the--you're there and the pressure of delivering and you're delivering on camera to all of these people. So it's-- you're under this incredible microscope. And then you have to kind of balance it with being comfortable with the uncomfortable. And so thank you for sharing that reality and that authenticity in terms of what it looked like and what it does look like. And you took us back 19 years. So I appreciate that very much. You know, I also want to--we want to thank you, for the recent opportunity where you shared NAMI and spread awareness for mental health on an episode of Celebrity Family Feud. We're so appreciative for you sharing the word because every day we meet someone that will tell us, when we tell them about NAMI, they say to us, I wish I'd known about NAMI sooner. So the more we can change that statement and have people know about NAMI and go upstream where they can find out about the resources and what NAMI does across the US, it's fantastic. So you had a lot of choices and you made the choice for NAMI, and we are-- just want to say thank you again. Well, you're so welcome. I mean, it was an easy choice. My sister was on my team. It was my stepson Noah, my niece, and my sister. And collectively, we decided that NAMI should be the organization I've spoken to, many times, with my niece. She has a therapist. We talk about the importance of therapy. My nephew has BDD, body dysmorphia disorder. And so he has gone to therapy with my sister. And, you know, as a family, they have, someone to speak to. As I have done speaking engagements and wit thought leaders, but also executives, one of the things that has come out of these conversations is for people to talk about seeing someone, speaking to someone, therapy, and to normalize it, especially as a leader of an organization. Because as a leader, if I can talk about the therapy that I seek, that I go through, it will say-- and I'm in this place of power, it means that you too can speak to somebody and seek help and talk to your friends. And I have from, a young age, I want to say 30, my spiritual life has been very important to me and helps me get through many things, many tough times. And so I think because all of us have gone through things and we have talked as a family, when we were looking at different organizations to represent, we all came together for the one commonality that we have is our mental health. And we are lucky to know that someone in our family is going through something that we can help them out with. Sometimes you don't know. So that is how we decided. And I think just to normalize the conversations, really, is how we made that decision. Thank you very much. And I just wanted to say, not as a CEO of NAMI, not just as a CEO of NAMI, but as a dad, as an uncle, and as a husband. I just want to say thank you to you and your family. And I hope that hear this sound bite. To the family, thank you. Thank you on behalf of NAMI. And thank you from a dad, and an uncle, and a husband, and a son. So, interesting enough, my dad, who is approaching 92, has actually, read--he's a voracious reader so we have our first book, You Are Not Alone the NAMI Guide to Mental Health. He read the book and he asked me about my mental health. First time in my life at 68 years young, that he's ever brought up mental health, which I don't know that he would have had he not read the book. So it is about that family connection and us, you know, helping each other out. Yeah. As we speak about normalizing the conversation, I want to transition, if I can for a moment, to an upcoming cookbook release that you're going to have. And, coming out this October, Carla and the Tin Can Cake Party. And what I understand is, it's about your grandmother who helps you turn things around when a game of dress up leads to a fancy tea party gone wrong. Tell us about the book and what led you to write that book? So I've wanted to do children's books forever, and this will be my second one. But this is the first one where I wrote every single word. And I learned so much from my grandmother. It was my grandmother who said, it is your job to be happy, not to be rich. And I took that to heart. It's how I live my life, it's how I make business decisions, it's how I make, decisions on what projects to take. I mean, it is my job to be happy, not to be rich. And so one of the things that I wanted to tackle, and I always do one recipe in my books. I'm saying always, this is the second one, and I hope there are more. My grandmother was so influential and my sister and I, we go to her house every summer and spend a couple weeks and we would play this dress up game called "Deary," where we would talk like this and we would talk about--"Yes, deary" and pretend like we were so important and so fancy like my grandmother and her friends. And so we were doing all of this, and I decided to have a tea party, and I thought, just being fancy was just gathering things together. And then in the story, it's all slapdash and everything, and granny pulls me into the kitchen and says, wait a minute. I think there was a really important ingredient missing in this tea party. And that's when I found out it was love. And, so I talk about when I was on Top Chef and the idea of cooking with love. And so I bring this story together as a child and then Carla and the Tin Can Cake Party to talk about how I discover the magic and the element of love and food in everything that you do. You know, as you speak about that, I think about, that--this isn't your first book, though. You've also written three cookbooks, the most recent being Carla Hall's Soul Food Every Day and celebration. Yes. And in that book you've talked about these recipes with love and joy and keeping memories alive. Would you share with us a bit about that book and the thumbprints of love and joy that are in that book from Carla Hall? So one of the things that I wanted to show people in that book, in particular, I mean, soul food is the thing that brings us joy. Food is the thing where we have these memories. It is so charged with memories, with people, with flavors, all of that. But also in that book, I wanted to show that there's a difference between everyday dishes and celebration dishes. I think when people think about soul food, they think about, oh, oxtails and macaroni and cheese and candied yams and greens and, you know, and a lot--and smothered pork chops and a lot of them are very fattening. Every single culture, every culture has those dishes that they celebrate with. Somehow I feel like soul food has gotten stuck there. And I wanted to show if I use the premise that my great, great, great, great, great, great grandmother was still in West Africa, how would she be cooking if she was here with me today? And a lot of those dishes would not be the fattening thing. So I lean into the legumes, I lean into some of these ingredients that we know, but they're not laden with fat, and sugar, and salt. And that is okay, but you can't eat like that every day. And the same way that other cuisines showcase their, everyday dishes, I felt like it was time for us to really look at our dishes, and while we look back at West Africa. That's incredible. And as we talk about this, and I wanted to bring up the word and in addition to love, the words love and joy, fellowship. You know, for communities, food and breaking bread is about fellowship. And it's that, I know going to my grandmother's home, we called her Mama and Sundays were at Mama's, and it was getting the family together, sitting around the table with the food, breaking bread together and talking to each other and connecting over food. And we never connected the dots in terms of what it was doing from mental well-being. But we--I know now that that was--we'd come there and break bread and talk, and we would leave fulfilled and not just our bellies, but from the neck up. How have you found food connecting the dots from the standpoint of mental well-being? Or have you found it? I have, I have. I want to--so I had a restaurant for a very short time Carla Hall's Southern Kitchen. It was in Brooklyn, New York, and I wanted to bring the feeling of my grandmother's Sunday suppers to that restaurant. And I had to go through and think about what was that feeling. One thing was, I wanted to do drop-in policy, and one of our tenants in the restaurant, and I needed everyone to understand there's always room at the table for one more. And it was like in the South, that do drop-ins, the welcoming that you don't have to call ahead. You are welcome here so you can come here for refuge, for a little something to eat, a little something to drink, and we are that a fold you into the community. So that was the one thing. The other thing was, teaching people that--you know, we think about soul food and I wanted people to understand and to feel that we are cooking for them. We would make our biscuits every day. But it didn't just start with the people coming in to have the biscuits. It started with the people that I was teaching to make the biscuits, as part of my team. So it's one thing to break bread together. It is another thing to make bread together. And so that love started when we were making the food. And I told them that we have a responsibility to put all of this goodness in the food, because it starts with us. And if we put the love in the food, when the people eat it, they will taste it and they will come back. But it starts with us. And so there is this transference of love and joy and bringing people together. And I full, wholeheartedly believe that because I say, if you're not in a good mood, the only thing you should make is a reservation. Oh, I love it, I love it. So there's this lecture series, the Smithsonian Associations lecture, How to Nourish Your Mental Health. And I know for me, Carla, and my wife has become a vegetarian. I used to love to marinate meat and actually seasoned it overnight and slow cook it and fix all kinds of dishes. My grandmother's macaroni and cheese, which the family now when we get together, it's "is Dan bringing Mama's macaroni and cheese?" So it's a mandate that I do that, but sometimes I will go in even now when it's just-- we're empty nesting and I will cook, even though there's no one there to eat it because it's to nourish my mental health. Would you speak to that series, the Smithsonian Lecture Series, and How to Nourish Your Mental? Because I know what it does for me. It's either--there's a couple of things that I do every now and then, but sometimes I just have to get in the kitchen and just the fragrances and just I don't, I don't know. It does something to affect my emotional well-being. Oh, absolutely. When my husband was an attorney and working for the FDA, he wouldn't even take off his work clothes. He would come in and start cooking. So I get it and so that was how he would decompress. One of the things-- I did a series of meditations while prepping your food. And so a lot of people ask me, do you listen to music? And I know music can be very soothing. Do I listen to music in the kitchen? And I said, I actually don't because I like to hear the sounds of the food. I like to be immersed in this. I like to hear the water running. I like to hear, you know, the knives hitting the cutting board and cutting through lettuce. And there's a certain sound. I like to hear the sizzle of a pan. I like to hear when I'm making dressing. And I know that I have, like, all the aromatics, like shallots, and vinegar, and mustard in the blender. And then I know that when I pour in the oil, it's like (imitates sound of blender). Like all of that, all of that is nourishing me. And I know that in terms of my mental health, I'm decompressing. I know that I am preparing this for a person who is going to enjoy it. And by that gift and the gratitude that I get to do that, I'm also connecting my mental health with this food for the person that I am giving it to. And I do that through the lens of--with my grandmother. And she's no longer here with us, but she was the culinary matriarch of our family, and that is the torch that I carry now, as the culinary matriarch, the person who is going to be the keeper of the recipes, the food memories, and all of that. So I own that title. I mean, self-proclaimed, let me just tell you. But all of that is for the mental health of our family. And I tell you, for the holidays and when my nieces and my and nephews come over, it is like this anticipation just like I had at my grandmother's house and everybody exhaling when they see their favorite dishes. So all of that, you know, is celebrated through that series at the Smithsonian and also through celebrating other cultures through food. Yes. Being inclusive and really celebrating, acknowledging, and tasting and that on your palate is just wonderful. And it gives you a different experience. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Carla, as we get ready to wrap up, I want to also say something to you that I met you years ago on a train ride from New York and you were so nice. I just reached back, and I'm seeing this personality here on the train. And I was like, "Excuse me. I just want to say hi." And you were so pleasant from then to now. And then I see you at the NFL experience for the Super Bowl. And you are meeting and greeting everyone. Then I see you at the airports and you are meeting, you're taking pictures with people. You're meeting people. How do you take care of your well-being when you are giving so much of yourself to all of us? I've never seen you--and I see you most often at the airports. I'm never seeing you not meet someone with that joy, with that smile and say hi, and make that other person feel good. So we're judging the book by its cover. But when we get to the table of contents in the chapters, how does Carla take care of Carla? I mean, it's a it's a two-pronged, a multi-pronged thing, the things that I do to take care of myself. One, in that moment, it is gratitude. It is gratitude to that person because I feel like the people who come up to me are the reasons I have a job. So I am not exhausted by it. It's like in that moment I get to thank them and to speak to them and to see them. And then at home, I have an incredibly supportive husband. I am borderline introvert-extrovert. So a lot of people think that I'm an extrovert and that my energy is high all the time, so I do have to retreat. I know that about myself. So I know that I have to retreat and sort of be alone and be at home and regain my energy. I also belong to a group called the Athena Sisters. It's a spiritual group that I've been involved with them for four years. So my spiritual life has been very important to me. I mean, for the last 32 years, and just to recharge. And I have an incredibly supportive team around me. When I tell you, I cannot do this alone, it is knowing that I am not alone and I know what my gifts are. I also know where I fall short and someone else picks up. I have--there's Kirsten, my assistant. There is Amanda, who does my social media. And then there is Ariane, who does the, she's my culinary producer. And it happens to be four people. But I see us raising and rising as a box, not a pyramid with me on top. And I know that I have people that I can lean on professionally. I know that I have people that I can lean on. I have really great friends that I can talk to personally. And I keep really good people around me. But the most important thing is for all of these people, I want them to tell me when I stink. I don't have to be perfect. I know that I do not have to be perfect, nor do I try to be perfect. Part of my authenticity is showing the vulnerable sides of myself and the sides that are very strong. And so I don't try to fit into a very perfect mold. And that takes a lot of stress and pressure off me. Yeah, yeah, there's no one that I've met that's more authentic and more joy-filled. So, you mentioned your husband, you mentioned your family, and you mentioned your team. So I'm going to take this moment to say thank you to all three. And then you also, mentioned your faith network. So I want to say, thank you to them because you bring to us this incredible person that just makes everybody feel better after having an opportunity to say hello to Carla. So, to the family, to your husband, to your faith team and your team, your production team, kudos. You know, and thank you. So, as we wrap up, we always ask our a guest one last question. Carla, we know the world can be a difficult place, and it's sometimes hard to hold on to hope. That's why with each episode, the last couple of minutes of the podcast, we ask our guests what has you, and what helps you hold on to hope? I was just talking about this yesterday. Like, like literally. I truly believe that everything happens for a reason and that I can learn something from everything. Even if I fall, I learned something from that fall. And it's not the fall, it's what happens after the fall. But when I look out at the world and I see little pieces of joy when I see the trees and the nature, and a child laughing or riding their bike and doing--and being able to do the things that I do and to pass on joy, that gives me hope. When people reach out to me and they're like, thank you for having social media that lifts us up, that finds the spark or the joy, that lifts me up, that brings me hope. Because right now, it can be a little hard. But I think we just have to remember to rest our nervous system, to breathe, and know that there are two emotions. There's love and there's fear. And every single emotion is a derivative of each. And so I choose love, and that gives me hope. That's incredible. There's two emotions. There's love and fear. And thank you, Carla, for sharing that. And this has been fantastic. And Carla, as we wrap up, we just want to say again, thank you. And looking forward to seeing you in person. Look forward to it. So, you know, folks, this has been Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. Representation, mentorship, and opportunity matter. Learn more about NAMI's outreach to Black and African ancestry communities to the Community Health Equity Alliance at www.chea.nami.org. Now, if you are looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit NAMI.org/help. Text NAMI to 62640 or dial (800)-950-6264. Or if you're experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. I'm Dan Gillison, your host. Thanks for listening and be well.