Pathways to Address Youth Mental Health Featuring Taanvi Arekapudi; Pooja Tandon, MD, MPH; and Dr. Christine Crawford

NAMI joined Macy’s Social Impact Collaborative, along with the Trust for Public Land and other nonprofit organizations, to conduct a study with the goal of gaining a better understanding of what is impacting youth mental health – directly from young people themselves. In this episode, guest host Kate Kennedy-Lynch talks with NAMI Associate Medical Director Dr. Christine Crawford, the Trust for Public Land’s Dr. Pooja Tandon, and Taanvi Arekapudi, a young person who participated in the youth study. Together, they will discuss key findings from the study, where young people are looking for help, how outdoor time can help families and young people, and advice for talking to young people about mental health concerns. 

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.

Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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There are some positives to technology, and I think that there are opportunities to find a community there for some people, but it's really finding that balance. I often talk about this idea of green time instead of screen time. What we know that we need to do less media and less social media. But what is the alternative and how can we create those opportunities for young people to engage in movement and play in outdoor time that is restorative, that is beneficial for their mental health? Welcome to Hope Starts With Us a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I'm your guest host Kate Kennedy-Lynch, NAMI's Director of External Relations joining Hope Starts With Us today. Thank you for joining this community by tuning in. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories. Hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so that you know you are not alone. Hi, my name is Kate Kennedy-Lynch and I'm the Director of External Relations for NAMI National. That means that I sit on the Strategic Alliances and Development team and have the immense pleasure of working with many of our corporate partners and supporters and a lot of our strategic partners as well to ensure that the work that NAMI does is supported and can continue forward. And we're so excited to be having this conversation today. For today's episode, we are digging into youth mental health. NAMI joined the Macy's Social Impact Collaborative, which was created in an effort to join forces between companies and nonprofits to do more for today's young people. Guided by the shared principle of providing voice, choice, and ownership, Macy's and NAMI Trust for Public Land, Active Minds, Big Brothers, Big Sisters, Girls Inc., Good Shepherd Services, The Judd Foundation and Reading Is Fundamental coordinated a youth study to learn what young people are concerned about and learn where organizations can make a positive impact on those concerned. This is a real are all star list of nonprofit partners. We're so happy to be aligned with. The youth study was done in partnership with the Youth Scan Project, a youth philanthropy project. Youth Scan asked the collection of 66 young people to submit up to three topics they are concerned about. Mental health was submitted by 73% of participants. Our guests today are joining us to talk about some of the key findings from this research and dig a little bit deeper about what these results could mean. Today we are joined by our incredible panelists, Taanvi Arekapudi, high school student who participated in the Macy's Social Impact Collaborative and provided insight into youth experiences. Dr. Christine Crawford, NAMI's own associate medical director and a child psychiatrist, and Dr. Pooja Sarin Tandon, Health Director at the Trust for Public Land. Thank you everyone, for joining us today. We're so thrilled to have you. I'd like to start actually with Taanvi and sharing how you became involved with the Macy's Social Impact Collaborative Youth research. Thank you so much for having me part of this podcast, Kate. I'm so excited to be here today. So to start off with the question, how did I get connected with the Macy's youth opportunity? So basically last year I went to the NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental illness 2024 convention. I went there because I was receiving the National NAMI Youth Award, and I got to meet Jennifer Rothman there, and actually I was contacting her through email before the event. And at the end, like when we were saying 'bye,' she mentioned that there is an opportunity to connect with Macy's. And I said I'd love any opportunity. I'm always passionate, like any mental health way I can advocate to be a part of those opportunities. And then, I think it was last September, she sent an email with the application process for the Macy's youth team and more information. And I was super excited, I applied. I think it was like a Google form. And then in October, they mentioned that I got in and accepted. And then we had, I think every two weeks on Tuesdays we had meetings to talk about all these different topics around health, including mental health. And I really, really loved after school on Tuesdays, getting to meet people from across the nation, youth my age, 14 through 18. And they got to share their diverse perspectives. And I think like just being in school and like having lunch with friends, I hear different things and actually talking about global health issues with people from different states, different life experiences and backgrounds. So I was very grateful that, from October last year to this March, I was part of the Macy's group, learned so much, and was excited to hear that a lot of the things that we said, us being vulnerable about our experiences, helped change and make a difference for more youth. Yeah, it's so true. We're so glad that you were able to participate. So important to have your voice, as NAMI always says nothing about us without us. So we're so happy that we had your voice and the voices of your cohort members on that panel. Pooja, as Trust for Public Lands' Health Director, and Christine, as a child psychiatrist and now NAMI's associate medical director, are you at all surprised to learn that 73%, which I think is pretty impressive myself, but as professionals, are you surprised to hear that 73% of youth respondents chose mental health as the top concern based on what you see in your everyday life? I can jump in first, I mean, so I wear two hats as a pediatrician or primary care pediatrician. I am not surprised because this reflects what I'm seeing in my clinical practice, particularly since the COVID pandemic, the amount of patients, children, youth coming in with mental health concerns is higher than anything I've seen in the past, you know, 20, 30 years of being a pediatrician. So in that way, I'm not surprised. I also think youth today are much more aware and honest about their concerns around mental health. I think there's more conversation about this in schools. We're not--we're not at a place where there's enough conversation and there is still stigma. And I think that that came through in some of the findings here. But I think that that may be a positive cultural shift that's allowing youth to bring this topic up more as something of critical importance. And we know it's really important in terms of public health. And I totally agree with that as well because it's amazing how invested in mental health our young people are. And they know that it's critical for all aspects of their lives. Like if their mental health is unsound, then everything else isn't going to, you know, be as it should. And so I do think that this is a reflection of young people feeling empowered to talk about their mental health and to talk about their mental health to the adults in their lives, because we're also seeing that kids are actually getting into treatment. They're actually getting into care. And that's just a reflection of how receptive the caregivers and parents are to actually acting on what is happening with their child's mental health. And I also believe that at school, teachers are getting better. They've always been fantastic at being able to point out whether or not a kid is struggling with their mood or having behavioral issues, but I do think that there's been a lot more education for our teachers and other folks in the schools to feel comfortable identifying a potential mental health concern and then relaying that concern to the parents and caregivers of that kid. Yeah, that's such a good point, too, because as we know at NAMI, so much of our focus is on the person who lives with mental health condition, but it's also on the family and supporting the families. So knowing that, you know, parents and caregivers and teachers and coaches, all the people who touch kids lives are getting the resources that they need or seemingly getting the resources that they need is so important to that. There were a few major themes that came out of this--these focus groups and the study. And a few of those were academic burnout, pressure, and stress, social media and other two-- new technologies like AI and deepfakes, social isolation, and feelings of disconnection, and mental health conditions like depression, anxiety, as well as concerns about suicide. Taanvi, does any one of these topics stick out to you as an area that organizations should focus on more? That's a really good question. I feel like all of them are super important for organizations to focus on, but when I really think about it, I feel like suicide and social media are like the biggest ones. Of course, all the others are important, but the ones that, from my experiences as a student in the classrooms every day, is what I feel. And to go off like suicide a bit more, I think, although it's a very serious topic and the rates are increasing extremely high at this point, there's not enough education around it. And even if, like for example, everyone in the school is trained, the coaches, the mentors, the teachers, there's also not enough time in the day to actually understand, see the warning signs between students, and then help them. There's a lack of like, maybe you see a student who's off, but then the distance that teachers and students have, sometimes, teachers don't feel comfortable to actually go up to a student because maybe they don't know them the right way. They don't know what to say. They don't know what to ask. And every student is different. So I feel like even no matter how much work that we do around suicide prevention, it's still extremely hard because person to person, it differs. And then the way that we can recognize warning signs, it shows up in different ways. But then again, organizations-- the best thing that I would say that organizations locally would do is try to educate people that these different ways suicide can come up or ideation can come up within students, but also giving some resources that the teachers can tell students to go to like 988 or--because a lot of times teachers don't know how to help, even though they're trusted adults, because no one has taught them. So referring students to actual resources that can help are really important. And I would say, like, once we get more awareness, more information, more education around suicide prevention, the biggest outcome is that it can save lives. And I think organizations putting that at a priority is so important, especially coming after the pandemic and the amount of social media uses. And students' mental health, I would say, is the biggest crisis right now and we need to help, starting with suicide prevention and then going off of social media. I'm very passionate about the topic of social media, and actually I'm part of the American Academy of Pediatrics Youth Advisory panel, talking specifically about social media and mental health. And something that I've learned a lot is like, let's say I'm 16 years old right now. I've lived my entire life having access to social media, maybe a phone, or now a school computer that I use. I've always been able to access social media, whether it was my choice or not, but I feel like a lot of adults that I talk to seem to only think that I'm wanting to use social media. But truly, I don't know a life without social media. And I think that it's important to understand that we don't know--we've never learned how to use it properly, how to use it safely. Adults have never learned, so none of us know how to do it properly in our daily lives. So if anything around social media comes up, maybe some cyberbullying, you're comparing yourself, you're having low self-esteem. We don't know how to deal with it. And we also think it's just us because we don't openly talk about how we use social media. We talk about, yeah, I go on YouTube, I go on TikTok or Instagram, but we don't say, I feel maybe, guilty when other people are having fun and I'm doing this work or I feel like left out all these emotions. We don't know how to process them. But the biggest thing, organizations, I would say, there's an opportunity for them to do there is to educate students and even adults about boundaries that youth can set, like maybe setting time limits or knowing that there's a the time to work on learning information, doing your homework at school, and then some time to relax that you can be on your phone so students can start to learn, even if they're like adults now 18 years old, they can still learn. So their future, they don't spend the entire time on social media, but they have a good balance. So definitely like going back, suicide prevention and social media are extremely important as well as other factors. But we need to make sure that even if we're not completely promoting everything and reaching every single student, that we're doing our best and we're continuously trying to improve on that. That was the most eloquent--I think you--actually Taanvi, as the mother of young kids, much younger than you, but I feel like I have learned from you how to parent my children and learn how to guide them into this chapter where they're interacting with social media. So thank you for that. I was very helpful advice. Dr. Crawford and Pooja. What can we-- what do you think from your professional perspectives on the topics that Taanvi highlighted there in terms of suicide and social media? Yeah, I really do think the biggest thing is about prevention, right? In my mind, as a psychiatrist, suicide is the negative outcomes and negative consequences of not having good mental health to begin with. Right? So thinking about what are all of the elements that are necessary for a young person to be well, socially and emotionally. And what we are noticing is that kids are experiencing significant rates of loneliness now people are living in households with a whole bunch of folks walking around under the same roof, but people are really disconnected from each other. They're not routinely having conversations, checking in, "how are you doing?" and really meaning it, too. There are not as many opportunities in a lot of families to have meals together, which oftentimes was the place where people would connect. Family members would talk about their ups and their downs, and people will be able to notice if there were certain changes in their behavior and how they're presenting. But it seems like folks are, I don't know, just not as connected and engaged as much as they were before because there's so many more distractions. Now we talked about social media, but just having access to technology, period, it always means that we're connected to something else when we're at home. Right? So even the idea of dinner time. Say if you do have dinner with your family--phones are on the table. You have a parent checking their inbox. You have a kid who's playing a video game. And so the quality of the connection isn't as strong because we're constantly distracted by the devices that we have in our hands. So I really do think that if we just go back to basics connection, connection, connection, being curious about what's happening within your own family, within your own social circles, and to really mean it when you ask the question, how are you doing? And to model that behavior too. You know, if someone's asking you the question, instead of giving the typical responsive, oh yeah, "I'm doing okay," instead of just saying that, how about you tell them how you actually feel? Because that's going to make a huge difference to that other person. Like, whoa, you shared all of that with me? Okay. Well, maybe I should be vulnerable as well. And we need to do more of that in real life than relying on our phones and other forms of technology to do so. Yeah. Such a good point, Dr. Tandon, do you have other thoughts? Yeah, I love that focus on prevention. And, you know, one of--I read an article recently about this idea of social media, and I really appreciate, Taanvi, what you said that, you know, you grew up with this and, you know, why are children turning to social media? And one thought, one interesting theory in this was it's one of the very few places where young people don't have adults helicoptering them. And it was like an interesting take on, and also a reflection of this idea of, you know, how children--what childhood looks like these days, where children are spending so much time in adult directed spaces and activities and going from this sort of overscheduled thing to the next thing and, with always, you know, adults telling them what to do. And so it's not--yes, social media is addictive. And the companies, I think their algorithm's meant to keep us hooked in there. But I think it was an interesting thought of like, what else is happening in the ways that children are growing up in homes in terms of family meals, in terms of those connections, in terms of opportunities to connect with peers and community members, that this is the place where some people are finding their community. And, you know, I think there are some positives to technology, and I think that there are opportunities to find a community there for some people, but it's really finding that balance in both quality and quantity. So I always think of like screen time as, you know, like you're just like our food diet. Like what does your media diet consist of. And there can be too much of it. So it can be just pure like amount of hours. And we know young people spend, and all of us spend way too much time on there. But then there's the quality of that diet too, you know, are we consuming media that is age inappropriate, that is making us think badly about our bodies, that is, you know, harmful to us? And so I think when we think about both of those--and then finally, like, what is the alternative? And, that's where my other hat as a Trust for Public Land comes in, where I often talk about this idea of "green time instead of screen time." And you know what? What we know that we need to do less media and less social media. But what is the alternative and how can we create those opportunities for young people to engage in, you know, in movement, and play, and outdoor time that is restorative, that is, beneficial for their mental health and really puts them, puts all of us on that track to preventing the problems that can lead to, you know, the more serious outcomes like suicide. Yeah. And it's really--we were so excited to be able to talk to you today because the idea of talking about, you know, sort of online safety or being comfortable online and knowing how to handle it, seems so well positioned to line up the Trust for Public Lands work, which is really like really focused on, to use an internet phrase, like touching grass. And so, Dr. Tandon, your research has focused on children's health and healthy behaviors and reducing disparities, especially around play. So can you tell us more about that, about play, or that physical activity and outdoor time, that green time, and how that actually impacts young people's health? Yeah, one term I've been using more lately is "play equity." So it's this idea of opportunities for physical activity, sports, outdoor recreation, and access to those opportunities as a way of promoting health and health equity, because we know that both--and, you know, I'll say here, both kind of the structured physical activity which for young people usually takes the form of sports or being in teams and unstructured child youth directed opportunities for physical activity, movement, outdoor time, I think they're both critical and they both play a role in that. So, you know, lots of evidence to suggest that that being part of a sports team, for example, being part of that community, engaging--you know, what is it? It's providing something that children can engage in after school that maybe is getting them off screens or getting them out of other, unhealthy behaviors. So I think there's a place for that. And, but, you know, it's not for everyone. So I think all children also need opportunities from you know, really birth to older teens, for those opportunities of spending time outdoors, being physically active, both of which have a substantial evidence base now that they are important for and associated with fewer symptoms of depression, of anxiety, of lifting our mood. And we know that unfortunately, not everyone has the same access to those spaces, particularly in and around their neighborhoods, in and around their schools. You know, we-- the national parks are amazing. Those deep wilderness, immersive experiences in nature can be so restorative, but are not possible on a regular basis. And so I really like to think about those nearby nature, those opportunities in our school yards, in our neighborhoods, that can provide restorative environments, our parks, where children, youth and really can also engage in those intergenerational opportunities. The relational health piece of this, we haven't talked about as much. Well, we focus on physical health, mental health, and how do we create those connections with caring adults that are going to also support, mental health and young people to be more resilient when things don't, you know, go as planned sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. I will share, too, that--so I have two little kids and we just bought a bunch of jump ropes, and made that our outdoor activity over the long weekend this past weekend. And it was very humbling as a grownup to go back out there and jump rope again. But it was so wonderful, like my son's preschool sent home a note about, you know, how valuable outside time is and how important it is for them to, you know, even just see the birds and watch the clouds go by and see airplanes. And, just thinking about that made me feel so much like there's a support system for him. And, you know, they really want them to be outside and focus on the importance of outside time. So very much relate with that, so thank you. You know, in addition, NAMI has a lot of resources for young people, especially now, warning signs of mental health conditions and suicide. Which ties right into what Taanvi was noting, too. So, Dr. Crawford, what do you find to be a successful way to approach these topics with young people and with their parents in your conversations? And do you have any advice for teens who want to talk about mental health related concerns with their peers? Yeah. When I-- first thinking about the conversations that are happening inside of the homes, conversations between young people and the adults in their lives, I notice that a lot of conversations when it comes to mental health can be quickly shut down by the adults because of their level of discomfort, hearing that their kid is experiencing distress. Right? It's hard for parents to tolerate their kid not doing well. It's hard. And so often times parents provide immediate reassurance to the child and says things like, "oh no, you shouldn't be worried about that." "Oh no, no need to be sad. It's not a big deal." We do that all the time, but when we do it, we're really doing it to mitigate our own anxiety, our own discomfort. But when we do that, we're actually closing the door on an opportunity for connection, for an opportunity for the child to actually communicate what's going on, to be vulnerable with their parent, and to share what are some of the things that perhaps they've already explore to help manage the current stressors that they're experiencing. But as parents, we're problem solvers, so we always kind of lead the conversation. But I think one tip for folks to think about in their own homes with their kids is to let the teen or your kid lead the conversation. Right? And so the way that you can create that space is to be curious about your kids' experience. And so if you always appear curious about what's happening in your kid's life, about how it is they're thinking and they're feeling, then they might feel a little bit more inclined to share more, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of judgment. And that's kind of in the air. Right? And so if a teen or a kid is actually opening up to you as an adult, you got to just sit on your hands and listen. Keep your mouth shut, right? Listen, listen, listen. And to ask them, okay, what is it that I can do to support you? What could--in your mind how could I be most helpful for you in this moment of time? Right? Because a lot of parents think that they're providing support, that they're helpful, and they'll say things like,"oh, well, I offered to take them to the movies." "Oh, I offered to do this." Yeah, but that's not the form of support that they needed in that moment of time. That's what you wanted to do. But that wasn't helpful to the kid. They didn't want that. And so you need to allow your kid to tell you how you can be helpful. So that's really important. Now the question about, like, peer-to-peer conversations among young people, that's a really interesting one because it's all about safety, right? It's about who do you feel safe sharing all this information with? Because information can spread like wildfire, at a high school or in a middle school. Right? And so that lack of trust or safety is oftentimes a major barrier to kids wanting to open up to another kid. And that's why--and again, we're not bashing on social media at all, because I think it's a very powerful tool when leveraged well. But I do think that's why peers are having these conversations online, because it is safer in the sense that you're having these conversations with a selected group of individuals who are like in the same, you know, chat room or following the same influencer. You know what I mean? So, you know that these are your people, but out in the wild in your school, you don't know, like how people are really feeling. And so I think people are, feeling like online in conversations is safer. But try it out, test it out, share little pieces of information with your friend and see what it looks like over time. If you share one thing, does Sarah, you know, from, you know, period two gym class, does she found out? And if you notice that things seem to be kept within that person then maybe over time, you could start to reveal more because you know that person is a trusted individual? Taanvi, just, off the cuff here, do you agree with Dr. Crawford? Like in your experience, in your current life and in your lived experience, do you agree? You know, have you found what Dr. Crawford is interesting to sort of work and apply in everyday life? Yeah, I would definitely say like a lot of the things that you were saying, Dr. Crawford, really resonated with like what I see in my own classrooms, with my own peers. And I like the idea of, like trying to say things little by little to your peers. And I feel like one of the biggest things that I'm experiencing right now, like in my own classroom with my own teachers, is like a lot of teachers with our school budget cuts, there's like 50 students in a classroom. So the teachers also don't get enough time to talk with the students and check in one-on-one to see, like, how their mental health is doing. So of course they're going to talk to their peers. But then I don't think like peers really know like, how are you supposed to help your friend? What are you supposed to do when your friend says something? And I like what you said about like, we say thing is just to mitigate our own anxieties and our own fears. And I noticed, like I do that all the time in school in certain situations. Because it's also like, if my friend tells me during passing period for five minutes that she failed a test. Like the only thing in that moment I can say is, "oh, I'm sorry." "Oh, that's so annoying." But since I only have like one minute with her, then I can't really talk more and have a better conversation, which is where I guess social media comes in. Maybe after school I can check in with them. I can debrief and ask, "hey, is everything okay? I didn't get to talk to you too much," so I think that's a really helpful point. And then, what you said earlier about parents and talking to our parents, I noticed, I think last year I was having, like, a conversation with my dad, and I was very stressed about, like, the whole workload of what I was doing in school. So I tell him. But then I remember before telling him, I should tell him that I just want him to listen, because a lot of times he jumps up with solutions and they're helpful. But like, after like eight hours of school, I just want to tell somebody and just have it out of my head. I don't want like a solution. Oh, I should time manage better, I should have a schedule or anything like that. So whenever I tell him, "just listen. That's all I want from you right now," he does a really good job of just listening because he knows the response is just like, "okay, heard, and let me know if there's anything I can do." And I think just telling--like if any youth is listening, telling a parent beforehand or guardian or teacher that you just want them to listen, it can help them feel better because they're like, oh, that's the only thing I need to do. I can definitely listen, but it can also help you feel better and like more ready for their response. So just like gratitude for sharing. And then also, I wanted to add on to what Dr. Tandon said earlier. I've never really thought about like as being a mental health advocate and doing the work around how can I help my peers when they're going through anxiety or depression or stress? I've always thought about like, meditation, mindfulness, or coping strategies like breathing techniques, but never really about like play, the physical activity that you do the exercise or things that you do, like maybe building things with your hands or going to parks. And I just like connected that we go to school for like 7 or 8 hours a day. We come back, we have five hours of homework, and then the only thing we need to relax is scroll or watch TV, which is another like screen time. So all that screen time is like 15 hours a day for students at the minimum. So I really understand and I want to try to do outdoor play more just to like enjoy swinging in a park or doing things that are not sitting in front of a computer the whole time. So I really appreciate that, like a new way, a new solution. I'll just going back to the old times and what people did when they were free when they were younger. So I really like what both you said and really connect, especially from a youth perspective. That's amazing. That was such a nice summary, Taanvi. Thank you. Yeah. So I think before we conclude, I'd like to ask you three the question that we ask every podcast guest, which is that the world can really be a difficult place sometimes and it can be hard to hold on to hope. So that's why each episode, we dedicate the last couple of minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold on to Hope. So. If you're comfortable, can each of you tell us what helps you hold on to hope? I can go first. I feel like for me, like just an example this year, like coming into junior year, it's extremely hard with all the workload and doing everything, catching up on school. And I feel like there's a lot of times where I'm thinking, like, what is bringing me hope or what's making me excited for the future? And I think the biggest thing is like probably being with family, like spending time with family in the evening or over the weekends. Maybe I can spend a little bit more time with them and excited for that. And recently my sister went to college. So that's like another thing to be excited for. I was like, when am I going to meet her next? So I think just looking forward to breaks and like right now, Thanksgiving break and then winter break. And as a student, I feel like that's the biggest thing. But then it's also way too far in the future. So I try to do things like watching a movie today, or being able to go for a walk, or trying to enjoy things that aren't way, way in the future, but also more temporary in the moment things. So definitely still like trying every day to look for a new reason to have hope and to be excited about the day. But I wonder what you guys think as well to that. Well, one thing that gives me hope, especially as a psychiatrist, is that mental health advocates aren't just folks who are in the mental health field, but it's everyone. It's young people, it's pediatricians. It should be eye doctors. It could be construction workers. It has to be everyone, especially when it comes to youth mental health, because we all have a connection with a young person in our lives, like we do. Everyone does. And so we really want to make sure that our young people have the tools and the resources that they need. And so we have to advocate for those things. There are only about 10,000 child psychiatrists in the country. So me and my friends, we can't do this whole thing alone, you know? And so I'm really, excited and it always gives me a sense of hope having these conversations with people who aren't in the mental health field, especially young people. So that definitely gives me hope. Yeah. What gives me hope is when I see young people like you , Taanvi, who think of themselves as part of the solution. I mean, as a society, I feel like we're facing so many challenges right now. And, and so, you know, when young people organize to, you know, advocate for mental health services, for climate action, for creating more inclusive spaces in their schools and their communities, that gives me a lot of hope, because to me, it shows, how resilient they are, you all are, and leadership skills that we know are going to be necessary for a brighter and healthier future. Amazing. Yeah. I think that you three are giving me a lot of hope. I think that conversation has been so inspiring. I also took a walking meditation. So, outside yesterday, breathing some fresh air. And one of the lines was, you know, it was a guided meditation. One of the lines was that "the sun is always there, even when it's cloudy or dark." It's always there. And so I've been thinking about that a lot as something that's like a sort of guiding principle. Ant ties nicely with being outside. So, hopefully everybody can kind of take that little, that little nugget away, too. This has been Hope Starts with Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. For more information about youth mental health, please visit NAMI.org/youth. You'll find resources for teens, young adults, and parents of young kids, as well as for educators and anyone else working with young people. If you're looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit NAMI.org/help. Text "helpline" to 62640 or dial 800-950-NAMI (6264). If you are experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. It has been a pleasure to be your guest today. Thanks for listening and be well.