Stronger Than You Think: Athletes on Mental Health and Resilience Featuring Christine D’Ercole, Rachel McArthur, Imani McGee-Stafford, Allison Schmitt, and Anne Wintroub

Behind the medals, records, and highlight reels are stories of perseverance that extend beyond physical performance. In this powerful keynote panel from NAMICon 2025, world-class cyclist and Peloton instructor Christine D’Ercole; former WNBA player and mental health advocate Imani McGee-Stafford; Olympic gold medalist swimmer Allison Schmitt; and middle distance track & field athlete representing ASICS Rachel McArthur open up about their personal mental health journeys — sharing the challenges they've faced and how they continue to prioritize mental health in high-performance environments. Moderated by Anne Wintroub, head of social impact and engagement at lululemon, this conversation explores what it means to be truly strong — and why vulnerability, support, and self-awareness are essential for lasting resilience.

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr.

Episode production is provided by NAMI staff, including Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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There are so many women, young women, as soon as they hit puberty, they drop out of the sport. The body is changing. Those things impact our mental health and restrict our freedom and make us feel like we do not have agency. Managing our mental health, being transparent, and talking about it in conversations like this, so that we can all get on the same page, so that we don't have to pretend that nothing's happening when everything is happening, this is how we can help each other with our mental health, so that we can keep doing the things that bring us joy. Well, hello everyone and welcome! I am so excited to be here today with this panel of such incredible humans and athletes. So thank you all so much for joining us. My name is Anne Wintroub and I head up Social Impact and Engagement at Lululemon. We are a proud partner of NAMI. We started supporting NAMI about three years ago when we launched our Center for Social Impact. And in these past three years, we are so grateful to have been able to contribute over$2 million to NAMI's incredible work. Some of that work includes support for 988 through the Reimagine Crisis campaign. And it now also includes new bodies of work that we are so excited to be getting into with NAMI on how we can best support the mental health of athletes. NAMI's CEO Dan Gillison has become a dear friend of Lululemon. We are so lucky to have his expertise on our Global Mental Health Advisory Board, and I want to thank him for that. Our entire company, community, and collective benefits from his and from NAMI's work, and from their expertise. So today we are going to--we are here to discuss women's mental health and the profound impact that well-being has on female athletes and their performance. And it is my total honor to introduce this incredible community of leaders, to share their perspectives, their knowledge, and their experience with you.

This is our esteemed panel: 1:56

world champion cyclist and peloton instructor, Christine D'Ercole. Christine, welcome. Asics runner, Rachel McArthur. Rachel, welcome. Former WNBA player and now lawyer, Imani McGee-Stafford. Welcome, Imani. And olympic swimmer and gold medalist, Allison Schmidt. Welcome, Alison. And thank you again all so much for being here. So I wanted to start by asking each of you to share who you are, your sport, and a major milestone. And Rachel, why don't we start with you on that? Yeah. Hello. My name is Rachel. As you said, I am a professional track and field athlete with Asics. I run middle distance events, so for me, that's the mile. I guess maybe a little bit longer, 5k-ish, but strictly track. So just track event. And a major milestone for me, part of my journey, a big turning point was I had surgery two years ago on my foot, and I only signed professionally last year. So, I wasn't a professional athlete, but I was returning from surgery last year, and I won my first U.S. title, and that was a really big deal for me. And from there, I feel like my career kind of took off and everything I'd worked for kind of taken off. And yeah, so that's where I'm at today. I, I had a lot of, good times last year, and I'm healthy this year and, yeah, just enjoying the sport. So glad you're having a healthy year. And thank you for sharing. Imani, why don't we go over to you with that? Hi. As you mentioned, my name is Imani McGee-Stafford. I'm a former WNBA player, currently a lawyer, almost attourney. And I stopped playing when COVID happened in the WNBA and took time to go to law school. And last year will mark my second complete year being back playing pro overseas. So that's been really fun. Amazing. Congrats on such an incredible transition and evolution. It's just amazing. And Christine, let's hear from you. Hi. Well, I want to clarify that my world championship, which is major milestones and masters world championship. So in my age group, which at the time was 45, 49 and 53, now. And yes, that was a major milestone, but I think a larger milestone for me was discovering cycling to begin with, because I grew up wanting to be a dancer, and they told me, and we often believe what we're told when we're children. They told me, your thighs are too big. And so the shame that came from that as my internal narrative about what I was capable of is I am too big to be in front, to be seen, to be beautiful, to be loved, to be lifted. And when I discovered the bicycle, I found that I could find success and feelings of being proud of myself because of what my body could do, not because of what somebody else thought it looked like. And that, as we're talking about mental health, being able to shift my internal narrative from I am not enough or too much of something to I'm just right. Sort of Goldilocks. That's discovering cycling in the first place was my biggest milestone. Amazing. And big cheers to that shift. Lifechanging. You're still a world champion even if you are a masters world champion. So, go you. It's a whole--that's a mental thing. Like wait, I'm not an Olympian, I'm not "elite." Although I do race the elites sometimes. Yeah. That's another whole mental health part of it, you know. Titles, but it's all--the journey all comes together in some way or another. And, Alison, please continue. Hi, I'm Alison Schmitt. I am a U.S. Olympian, for swimming, four-time Olympian and ten-time Olympic medalist. And I feel like that right there, saying that, is a pivotal, like, change for me. As growing up, my first Olympics was 18, in 2008. My last was at 31 in 2021. And being able to actually say what my accomplishments are is a huge change for me not to be embarrassed about them. I think, especially early on in my career, people would look at me kind of like, I'm not human. And oh, there's Olympic gold medalist, Alison Schmitt walking by. And so I took that to heart because I am a huge person that loves connection, just like every other human being loves connection. And I love to hear other people's stories. As you might be able to tell throughout this call, I love to ask questions and really engage with other people. So for me to be able to finally accept that I have a platform simply because of accomplishments I've had. But if I can use that platform for good, which, my reason why I'm finding good is helping people feel seen, helping people feel heard, and not feel alone. And so I'm now able to be proud of my accomplishments in sport. But use that platform to add good into this world. I love that. Well, and we're so lucky that you are able to and able to, you know, for everyone and everyone on this call today. And I want to thank each of you for being here again and for sharing. You're all just incredible. And I'm so excited to learn more about you and your work. So our next question, if you wouldn't mind sharing a really pivotal moment for you where you realized that your mental health mattered as much as your physical conditioning. Allison, why don't we start with you on that? I mean, my background is great. I, I have a lot of gratitude. I've grown up with a lot of gratitude. To this day, I have a lot of gratitude. And I first started feeling like, feeling like I was putting a mask on. At 22 years old in 2012, coming back from 2012 Olympics, where I had my greatest success, my greatest Olympic success and five medals. And when I came back, I felt like I was complaining if I said something was wrong with me. I felt like, I mean, I had so much to be grateful for. I had so much to be thankful for, and I was comparing myself to people who didn't have the opportunities I've had or didn't have the resources I've had. And so I really internalized all of that. It took me three years to finally get help and be open about my own struggles. And unfortunately, that came with the traumatic event of my younger cousin committing suicide. So in that event, in that funeral, obviously no one likes funerals, but I am one that wears my heart on my sleeve, shows emotion in every possible way, good or bad. And at that funeral, I really felt this connection of, my cousin's story could be told. Even though she's no longer here on this earth. And what I experienced is not the same that she experienced. But there's a lot of other people out there that have experiences in their own ways. And if we can share our own stories and find that connection and relate with others, then we can hopefully save lives out there and encourage others to continue to get help and to continue to share their story so that, again, we can become a kinder world and not one with so much judgment and so much hatred. Absolutely. And thank you for sharing that, Allison, so much. Imani, can we go to you now? Would you mind sharing a pivotal moment in your experience? Yeah, I think, so for me, my mental health journey has been, it's like everlasting. I'm bipolar, and that's something I found out maybe my second year in the WNBA. I kind of dealt with mental health issues my entire life. I grew up in abuse. I tried to take my life in high school, so I've kind of dealt with it, but I never really had access to mental resources, nor did I have, like, the funding for mental health resources. Like I didn't grow up with health insurance, all types of barriers to that. Outside of just the financial part. When I got to college, I kind of finally, finally got in front of a therapist. I started taking antidepressants, but every time I felt all right, I would stop taking them. And that kind of was my cycle throughout my early 20s. And when I finally got diagnosed, it was so scary. But it was also so freeing in a way, because I finally--Like I wasn't making it up, right? And for bipolar individuals, like, there's like the mania, which is super performance, high energy, like I get things done and then there's the really, really low lows. And for me, I would get to mania and be like, oh, I'm good. Oh we're good. We're over it. We're doing the things, we're perfect. And then I would crash. And so finally getting that diagnosis, it really helped me kind of realize, like, I would probably be a bit further in my career if I would manage my mental health, like in an active way. And I was already speaking about mental health. So also was kind of this like imposter syndrome, with me still having to figure out my own mental health, but actively talking about mental health in public spaces as well. I like to say I'm a little less fun, but more productive when I'm medicated. And kind of just navigating my own shame with that as well, you know? But I like who I am when I can manage my emotions, even if it isn't as exciting as me unmedicated and kind of finding my own acceptance with that, and then looking at who I can become when I am taking care of my mental health and all of the things I can accomplish on the court as well when I do that. And so it felt a lot better, both professionally and personally once I figured out like, oh, I'm bipolar, okay, this is how we manage that. Imani, thank you for sharing. I know, I mean, I'm so, so glad you got the support that you needed. It's incredible what you have accomplished. Thank you. And Christine, if we could hear about your pivotal moment as well, please. Well, I had--every year I go through, "Am I going to race this year? I'm really going to race? My off season was not what I wanted it to be." And especially now, I'm moving into menopause. Yeah. My training is completely different because everything hurts in a different way. Not being able to lift the weight I used to lift. Not because I don't feel capable, but because the elbow or the knee or the hip or the back is hurting, is very defeating. And so my most current pivotal moment in that is, going back to 2019, I really almost did not go to that world championships. My weight, I was up 20 pounds. I was really in my head in terms of overthinking everything and it was almost like I went back to where I was as a dancer in my teen years, when I was doing everything I could to make myself smaller. And I did not go to those behaviors again, but those feelings came up. The thoughts of the eating disorder, my self-harm that I had done to myself as a teenager from 13 to 18. All of those feelings started to come up again. And the recognizing that I was comparing myself to other people because my numbers, my weight was higher, my speed was slower, I was--I don't belong here. And forgetting why I ride a bike to begin with. And after sitting down with myself and going through my recognition of my self-talk process, it occurred to me that I can be both determined and detached at the same time. That I can be--I can approach the starting line like I want to win this race and remind myself to be present. And detached at the same time. Which really boils down to reminding myself to be curious. Allowing myself to be, "What if?" What if everything good happens? What if, what if I surprise myself? And in that moment, I found joy again on the bike and won the damn race. And it's-- I feel like that pivotal moment, however, happens over and over and over and over again. I'm scared to death. I get out on that track and I'm like, how the heck did I get here? What am I doing on a bike with no brakes on a velodrome? What is this? I wanted to be a ballerina. And remembering just how much joy that gave me is how I'm able to continually snap back and snap back. But I have to confront it constantly. I don't think that-- I don't think that pivotal moment is ever like a single 90 degree turn. And then your life has changed and you figured it out. I don't know that we ever figure it out. Absolutely. And I'm so struck, Christine, and thank you by what you shared about this combination of being determined and detached and that that was a real unlock for you about joy. I haven't,I haven't heard those experiences put together in that way. I really appreciate that. And, Rachel, would you share with us perhaps about the constant, a pivotal moment or the constancy of these pivotal moments? Yeah, I was going to say something really similar to Christine, actually, is that there wasn't-- I don't think, and there never is just one moment where you kind of realize, okay, mental health matters. For me, it's kind of the same thing. And I think all athletes can say you constantly walk that line of, am I maybe suffering a little bit more than I should be mentally? Or is this just the name of the game? You know, that's just sports. That's just being a competitive person. You're going to have levels of anxiety and stress. And I guess a bigger eye opener for me would have been last year at the Olympic trials. I physically just felt really good. And I mentioned earlier I had just signed my contract then, so on paper everything was awesome. I was in Eugene for a month training. It was amazing. And then when I lined up it was the worst race I've ever had. I just, I remember getting on the line and thinking, I don't want to do this. The feeling I had when I crossed the line was relief. I'm so glad this is over versus I'm excited to be here. And I think when you, for lack of better words, just fumble on a big stage like that, you know, trying to make finals, trying to make teams, that's when you really have to take a step back and dissect what went wrong here, because that's your livelihood. You know, you can't have that happening. And it's so hard to say, well, I wasn't injured. I wasn't training poorly. It was nothing like that. But you have to look internally. And I could recognize pretty much immediately that I was just so stressed beyond belief. I was very unhappy. I was not having a good time in the least bit. So, I think, like I said, there's a lot of moments throughout everybody's career that you kind of have to navigate. I guess mental health struggles. But I at least for me, it did boil down to one turning point, which in the end, you know, I'm happy that I guess it happened. Maybe not at the Olympic trials, but I'm happy I realized, your mental health really does impact your performance way beyond any physical attributes. I want to sort of take on where you left with that, which is to ask each of you, and this is threaded in much of what you said. And yet I think it's particularly at NAMIcon, if I could ask each of you to share why mental health is important to you? Absolutely. As an athlete, but specifically, specifically as a woman. And, Christine, can we start with you on that? Specifically as a woman, we live through a thousand different bodies between puberty and menopause, and we deserve to bear those thousand different bodies without shame and despair. There are so many women, young women, as soon as they hit puberty, they drop out of the sport. The body is changing. Those things impact our mental health and restrict our freedom and make us feel like we do not have agency in our choices, in what we--in being able to do whatever we want to do. And, so as a female managing our mental health, being transparent and talking about it in conversations like this so that we can all get on the same page, that we don't have to pretend that nothing's happening when everything is happening. This is how we can help each other with our mental health, so that we can keep doing the things that bring us joy. Yeah, absolutely. And Christine, I'm so, you know, I'm struck today, as I was when you and I had the opportunity to chat earlier, just these various stages of life as, as a female. And the impacts of those various stages on our mental health and having these conversations, and, you know, the opportunity to share those experiences is so important. So important. So thank you, so much for really like setting a standard in that. And Rachel, can we go to you with that question. What mental--why mental health is important to you as a woman. Yeah I mean mental health exists outside of sports. You know, outside of being an athlete, outside of being a person. But when I think of being a woman, especially in sport, to me at least, it seems like there's already this underlying sense of, well, women had to work to be there in the first place to have the same opportunities to compete, to perform. So there's this pressure to perform well. It's almost like Christine was saying it's, you know, you don't want to not perform well. You don't want to have a mistake made. You don't want to show flaws because it kind of just validates the latter, which is, women shouldn't even be there in the first place, you know? So I've constantly felt like, well, I need to perform well, not only because I'm an athlete, but because I'm a girl who's performing and I need to prove that to myself. And I also, I'm on a team with all guys. My entire team is four, four boys. And that's also very difficult. So I feel like my role as a woman is time overshadowed by just, you know, guys competing constantly. So it's, it's important to check in with myself and with those I surround myself with. Just remind myself, like, you're not just good for a girl, as the guys would say. You're not just good for a female performing. You're doing really good. And I think just, yeah, being in tune with yourself and surrounding yourself with people who are also in tune with you, is really important and matters a lot to me. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And, Imani, can we go to you with sharing about why mental health is important to you? I think mental health is important to me because, for me, it I think the sport gives me the platform. I'm 6'7". I was 6'5" at 13. And I've always kind of stood out, to say the least. But I think growing up, I never saw anybody that was going through the same things I was going through. Like, I thought I was the only person that had lived this life. And as I got older and like, my world expanded because of the sport and I started sharing my story. I met so many people who had the exact same story as me. And so now I think that mental health is important because of the younger version of me that was looking for somebody like me to speak about it. So I try to use the platform given to me via sport to talk about what it looks like to be a 30-year-old Black woman living and dealing with mental illness, and it not being debilitating. Because I think when we do see depictions of mental health and mental illness in popular culture, for me at least, growing up, there were never any Black pictures of what that was. Specifically, there's definitely never any woman pictures of what that was. And then it was no realistic pictures of what it was. It was somebody completely perfect and happy and always smiling or somebody deeply sorrowful, like on the brink of losing it. Right? There was never the gray area. So my goal with sharing my story is to encourage others to share bits and pieces of their story. Because while we all might not have mental illness, we definitely all have mental health. And the more we share our stories, the more people can find themselves in the gray area. My goal ultimately is that when I speak about being bipolar, it isn't this taboo scary thing, right? The same way I can say our sprained, my ankle last week, I should be able to say, oh, I'm bipolar and we should be able to carry on and know how to function in those conversations. Imani, I appreciate that so much. And you know, bringing your younger self into who you are, who you are now as a speaker, as an advocate, I really feel that from you and appreciate it. Thank you. And, Allison, can we go to you? Would you share the importance of mental health? Yeah. Well, first of all, I would like to say that my heart is, like, so full right now just hearing these stories. So thank you guys for sharing your own story and your journey, because I can feel all of it in my heart. So thank you for that. But mental health in general is important for me as an athlete and as a female, not just to perform better, but to live better. And as-- I have so much gratitude for sport, for the invaluable lessons sport has taught me, I mean, the list can go on and on, and I'm sure you guys can agree in some ways of the, what we learn in sport is something that we can't learn in everyday life. But there's also, like Rachel said, there's--I train with men too, and as a woman, there are just added layers. There's often the pressure of "be strong, but don't be emotional" or "be a leader, but don't be too intense." And so to juggle everything perfectly, there's that double standard as a woman, and it can just be exhausting. So for me, mental health gives clarity and strength to set those boundaries, to ask for help and to stay connected to who you are authentically, and not just to what you have achieved. Oh, absolutely. And I'm just again, just echoing Allison's gratitude. I'm so struck and not at all surprised by how we've just gotten right into it. So just huge appreciation for each of you, what you've experienced and how you're really carrying that forward. Thank you. And, Allison, I love what you said, too, about shifting from performing better to living better again, such a it's such a simple articulation. Such a challenge and so vital, right? So thank you. Thank you for that. All right. So let's now-- let's shift and start sharing more. And I know you all have such experience with this. About the outside and inside pressures to perform. Seems like the perfect spring off, Allison, from what you just shared. So, you know, we'd love to dig in to how the expectations on you as an athlete, how those expectations have shaped your mental health journey. So, Allison, I'd love to start with you. As we know, you are a four-time Olympian and ten-time medalist. It's truly remarkable. Did the pressure grow after each of those games? And how did and do you manage that pressure? The answer's "Yes." So after the first Olympics, people are just excited you're there. And if you perform, that's even better. But by the second or third, there's this expectation, and not just from the outside world, but from yourself. And yes, you've proven you can perform. But now that bar is set even higher. And so what helped me manage to-- it was staying focused on the "why." And I love to talk about that because my "why" is I fell in love with this sport. I mean, I'm swimming like we swim in a box filled with water with a black line for hours on end. Like that can't be that much fun. But I fell in love with that sport somehow, with the people in this sport. And that was long before the medals or the records came, or even in the picture. So I always try and stay grounded in that "why," and that "why" helps me get out of bed in the morning to go to those practices. I also became really intentional about focusing on the process and trusting that process, and not necessarily the outcome of that. I can only control what I can control. I can't control who shows up, who's swimming next to me, how fast they're going, how strong they're going. But I was able to focus on controlling how I prepared, how I performed, and how I responded, ultimately, under those pressures. And so what I was able to really flip the narrative of is to look at pressure as a positive. It means that people believe in you. It means that I'm capable of doing this, and I just had to learn how to carry that with me rather than letting that pressure carry me. I love that, and I'm really eager to learn more about how. How to carry that, how to carry that with you. A lot of work. A lot of therapy sessions, and also just a lot of relying on my support system. And I know for, especially in some, I mean, it's an individual sport, but I look at it as a team sport just because we have to rely on so many other people and it's not-- yes, I'm the only one swimming in that lane, but a lot of people help me get to where I am and using those teammates in life to get you through all the ups and downs. Because even if we look way past sport, I mean, sport is maybe, if we're lucky, a third of our lives and way past that into life, we're able to look at our "teammates," so-called teammates in life and help--help to help us get through any other obstacles that we have. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's like the uppercase T and there's the lowercase t, right. And those teammates in life are so, so vital to that. So thank you Allison, so much. And Imani, you shared your story so openly. And I'd really appreciate, if you wouldn't mind sharing whether you think that the public expectation and pressure have held you back from talking about that experience sooner. I think in terms of sharing my experience, I was 19 when I shared my story for the first time. I had no clue what it was going to turn into. I was just talking, and I think all of the like, expectations that came with that or like the scrutiny I wasn't even aware of. And as soon as I kind of felt the weight of it, I also found community surrounding it. And in terms of pressure, like, I'm a basketball legacy. My mother is in the Hall of Fame, my older brother is a three-time NBA champion. And I'm the cute one. So, you know, I think when I was really playing the WNBA, it took me a while to navigate how to, like, manage what that looked like because I was not them. I've never been to All. I've never been to All-WNBA. I have no championships in the pros. So I very much do not stack up when it comes to what was expected of me, or I guess, what has been done before me. And similar to what Christine said, I kind of had to find the joy in the process of it. Right? And I play a team sport, so, I can say I want to be WNBA MVP this year, but if I'm playing five minutes, it just won't happen. And so, like, creating realistic goals that I could track myself as opposed to necessarily outcome based goals really helped me kind of navigate the day to day of it all. And I think you guys can probably relate to it. I'm super goal-oriented and often times, I miss the now looking at the end. And so I had to ask myself, okay, cool. Like, did I still get better this season even if I didn't end up with like, the outside praise or the accolades that I--can, I tangibly look at all of the work I put in this year and see it? Okay, cool. And I started having to like, everything Christine was saying, look at myself and the things that I was doing and enjoy that part and know that like the outcome will come. A maybe it won't, but at least I can see, like the work and where it's going. Yeah. Imani, I really appreciate you sharing that. I'm such a huge, fan of the small wins and honoring those small wins. I don't know that we take enough space as athletes, as females, as leaders to, you know, to honor those day to day accomplishments when we are so like, big goal, you know, outcome, KPI-focused. So I just really appreciate you naming that. And Christine, I mean, you, speaking from experience, you are such a pillar of strength, dedication and possibility within the Peloton community. So how do you manage that, while, you know, being attentive to and honoring your own struggles. Thank you. That was very nice words. Transparency. I mean, being honest and clear about where I am and what's going on, I think is, is there's vulnerability in transparency, and it has sort of become a coined phrase that there's so much power and vulnerability. And it's true. But I think, I think it's more rooted in the transparency, than the vulnerability. Because if we're not talking about what's real, what are we talking about? We're just pretending. So in my storytelling on the bike in front of the camera, I will share that I'm scared or share that I feel heavier, I feel slower, and I think I'm going to go anyway. And there's nothing more--in a whole room of people going "yes!" Like, oh, I guess I'm going to go. I guess I'm going to go to the race. But at the same time, I grant myself permission that if it comes down to the day, if I feel like the knee hurts too bad in the wrong way, and it would be damaging to do the race, then I will say, this is what's happening. I signed up--I did a keynote and a workshop and a 100-mile bike ride out in Michigan for the Muskegon Area District Library for their mental health programming. And I was all set to do 100 miles and around 40, I felt like I was going to--both my knees were going to break off. And so I made it to 50 and I had to call it. And, you know, who am I doing this for? I'm not doing this to prove to anybody I could ride 100 miles. I'm doing this to support other people. This is not actually about me. Even though there were a lot of people who came because of me, to support mental health there. But I think setting an example of self-care and finding our self-worth in our self-care, not in what we can prove. Or like I said, I was going to do it, so I'm going to do it no matter how much it hurts me. That's not healthy. And, I think sharing what I'm actually going through in those, in those moments, is how I can serve the people who are attending my classes the best. It's just being real. How do you do you view self-care? And I ask this because I grew up thinking that like, go get your nails done, bake some cookies, like, that kind of thing. And it took me until I was getting my master's in social work to be like, what is self-care? Like I, yeah, go do these things. And yes, they make me feel good for like that moment, but it's not really changing my everyday life or like how I really go about my day. So I really wonder how you view self-care and like things, ideas that you can give other people for what that self-care looks like. For me, self-care boils down to self-talk because we all talk to ourselves and often we are incredibly unkind. And if we were to get a transcript of everything we said to ourselves over the course of a day, can you even imagine the height of that stack of paper? But furthermore, if we read what we said to ourselves, we would find laced through those

sentences, these four prompts: 36:34

I am, I can, I will, and I do. Whether it's positive, tentative, or negative, past or present, future tense. I am, I was, I can, I could, I couldn't, I can't, etc. those prompts are a roadmap and we listen to what we're telling ourselves. What we tell ourselves is the most powerful thing we can hear. It's louder than what anybody else says. So if what we're telling ourselves

and the roadmap that we're following: 37:06

I am scared. I can't do the race. I will not go. I don't deserve to win. Then we're going to believe that. So self-care for me is in challenging that self-talk and recognizing that I have agency in the narrative. And by changing the words, I can change-- I can change what's possible. I can't change cancer. I can't change a diagnosis. I can't change what anybody else is going to do. But I can change how I navigate the situation by being conscious of how I'm talking to myself. And that means excusing myself from a conversation when it's not serving me, or when I have to clear my thoughts. It's about saying no. It's about saying yes. It's about being in the middle of something and you have an idea and you got to write it down and saying, you know what? I need to go write something down right now. Can you please hold that thought? It's about escaping to a bathroom for five minutes to get my thoughts straight. I am going to show up. I can take the risk. I will surrender to curiosity. I do discover something tonight. Just throwing those four prompts helps me. That's my self-care. It's not a manicure, though, I really could use one right now. Got all kinds of paint under my nails. Under my nails, not on my nails. From painting the house. Christine, I appreciate that so much. And I'll share. I had my first experience just last week of going to a bathroom to get five minutes of peace. I'm an extrovert and it was a very--it was even too much extroversion for me. So I appreciate the reframing that what I was actually doing was self-care. Thank you. Thank you for that. 100%. It's not running away to take care of yourself.. No, I mean, that was a tiny bit of it. But that in itself, was self-care. And I mean, Rachel, this gets right to you and your sport, which is measured in milliseconds, right? So how do you maintain sense of self? How do you manage self-care when a race doesn't go your way or when a race does? Yeah, for me, it's totally, kind of with what everyone else is saying about finding a sense of peace. I always view things just in pictures, and I think there's going to be external and there's going to be internal stimuli, and one of those is always going to be crazy, but I can't control what's going on outside. So it's always about taking a step back and trying to find internal peace despite the environment. I'm in. Despite the noise that, you know, you're hearing, you're feeling elsewhere. A big thing that I had come to accept, though, is it's not about necessarily getting rid of all pressures you feel or completely, I guess, avoiding situations that can cause stress and pressure because, like I said, we all walk that fine line of, you're going to have that in sport. It's kind of about mitigating that and being able to do something anyways. Finding peace within yourself and tying your happiness also to other things, not necessarily the results of your performance or whether you win this race or win this competition or anything like that. But I always say that my joy is in my journey, and no matter the result, I'm taking this as a step. I'm at peace. Obviously I'll be upset if it doesn't go my way, but I never allow myself to dwell on those types of negative emotions when things don't go my way for more than like 24 hours, you should feel everything I don't think you should ignore feelings, but I think you have to come to peace with how things are after a set amount of time and move forward, because it is about the journey, and that's again where I'm finding the joy. So kind of just always reminding myself of those things. Yeah. Rachel, I love that. And I'm curious as well. Just in like, finding that joy, whether that's something that has come naturally to you, whether that's, you know, a muscle that you really focus on building with your training, just what that process has looked like to learn to acknowledge for the first 24 hours when things aren't feeling great, and then bring in the great. Yeah, totally not a natural thing. I mean, like I said, I was injured for a really long time. And as a collegiate athlete, it's oftentimes expected when you're at certain level, that you sign professionally right after you graduate. Otherwise you need to kind of move on. I graduated in 22, and I didn't get a contract until, you know, 24. So throughout those years, I think I had to really learn to implement what I just talked about. Just what am I doing this for? Kind of like what was said earlier, I think, Allison said that, is that you need to ask yourself, why am I even doing this? And when my joy was tied to, because I want to be really good, because I want to get a contract, because I want to have this as my job and not go work a desk job. That's really it. Nothing was coming of that. I was not finding any results, with that. But once I kind of said, okay, what actually makes me happy? Is it running? Is it traveling? Is it any of these things? Things started just getting better naturally because I find joy in my journey of pushing myself each day, of having little goals that I can reach and not this big, well, it's because I don't want to do other things. So yeah, it's kind of just shifting the narrative in your head. It is something you have to practice and things you have to really think about, and sometimes you're forced to take a step back and that helps you think about them. And yeah, again, just throughout those years, I would say I really practiced it a lot. That's so helpful to understand. Thank you for sharing that. And I love all these themes that are emerging as well here. And Allison you brought in the theme earlier about, you know, teams uppercase T, lowercase t, what have you, and we'd love to go deeper on that now. And thinking about support systems, how we experience them, how we cultivate them. So Imani, I'd love to start with you. You know, in you transition from as you share from professional basketball to pursue law. So what did this shift do for you mentally? That's a loaded question. Yeah, I'm sure it is. And perhaps who is with you, if you could share anything about, you know, your team on that journey as well. Yeah. So I think the biggest part of this story is that, there's two things. One, I always say, whether you believe in God or a high power, like God gives a vision to you, because he didn't give it anybody else. So like, you make an idea and look around for outside reassurance, he didn't tell them what you're going to do, he told you. And when I first said I wanted to go to law school and stop playing, arguably like in the peak of my career, a lot of people were like, yo, you're crazy. Like, why would you do that? They're so dumb that-- whatever the case may be. But when I graduated, everyone was like, oh my God, I knew it. You're going to be so great. You know what I mean? So I think, one understanding that, like, your life is yours and you're allowed to reinvent yourself and pivot as many times as you want to. Not to say that won't come with friction or uneasiness or fear, but you can still do it, right? And I'm blessed. The second thing is having people around you that believe in you, not what you do. I think as athletes, we often are categorized by what we do. Right? I'm a basketball player as opposed to a person who plays basketball. And as simple as that sounds, it actually is a big difference because I had people around me that believed in me. So when I mentioned I was thinking about law school, somebody in the front office who we actually ended up graduating, at separate schools together, was like, oh, I just took the LSAT. Take all my books and I'm like, I'm just thinking about it. No, no, no, take all my books. It's fine. Try it. See if you like it. Right? That's the first time I mentioned it. When I finally was like, okay, I'm gonna take the LSAT. We'll see how it goes. I told my agent, like, hey, I applied to law school and I got in, and instead of him being like, hey, we play basketball. His response was, that's amazing. Is that what we're doing? Are we going to law school now? And I was like, "yes?" You know what I mean? So, I was very blessed to have people around me that were close to me that believed in who I was, not necessarily what I did, and they believed in Imani. So Imani, comma, whatever comes after that, they were following, they rockin' with it, you know? And so, that's my biggest thing, I think. Make sure you have people that believe in what--in you, and you can do whatever you want to and then understand that when you are pivoting, people are only used to seeing people be great at one thing. We don't understand multihyphenates. We don't understand--we just don't understand it as a culture. But in reality, like you can be great at as many things as you choose to put the work in to do. And so understanding like that change and that transition from people knowing you as one thing to the second thing might be uncomfortable and hard, but it's possible. Yeah. Imani, what you just shared about, you know, and I feel as though I've used this language with other individuals, what you just shared about not being a basketball player, but somebody who plays basketball, you know, those the small shifts are profound. And I really appreciate you naming that and those two examples that you gave as well, the textbooks and your agent, I mean, just these like acts of support and kindness, you know, these micro acts that have these significant ripples. It's really awesome to honor that and to think about those as models, really appreciate those. They had a lot--like, I don't know if I would have gone to law school had I been met with, "What are you doing?" or, "we don't do that." Honestly, I'm pretty positive I would have just thrown it away as an idea of what could have been. And luckily, you know, I had people that encouraged it. Yeah. Yes to your agent and yes to whomever gave you those LSAT books. So cool how you created that path. Like you went on your own path, and all those people who hated you or were like, why are you doing this? And you created that path to make it possible for, like you said, the girls that come in the future. And it's not a unique thing or weird thing to have two different paths that you're really passionate about. Absolutely. And, Alison, if we could, if we could stick with you and I just-- I want to appreciate so much what you shared about your cousin who died by suicide. And I was, you know, so was struck by what you shared about how that that brought you into this space of conversation and advocacy. And could you share with all of us as well, just how sharing that story has, has really helped you to heal from that experience? It comes down to connecting with people. I mean, this conversation and hearing other people's journeys and stories, it validates that we're all human in that we can all turn to each other in different parts of our lives for that support. As a human being. And yes, everyone is passionate on this call about sport and elite sport and that performance. But at the end of the day, we're all human as well. And part of my story of my cousin's suicide, it led me into this mental health path. Like I said earlier, I got my master's in social work, and if you would have asked me in college if I was going to go first, pursue any more schooling, so let alone, social work, psychology, whatever that is, that would have been a "no." My plan--I've always been a helper. I've always wanted to help people. And I thought that I want to be a kindergarten, first grade teacher. With, schooling, with swimming and all of that, I just couldn't do it in undergrad because of the practice schedule and student teach and all of that. So I actually did get my undergrad in psychology, and it turned out that's kind of the path that I went anyways. But I went back and got my master's in social work so that I could not only speak on my own story, my own experience, not only my cousins, but the experience that I felt throughout my journey, throughout my life and I can now speak on the experience mixed with the knowledge and the education, the science behind it and help people. Yes, it's still a classroom. Yes, you're still helping people, but it's not the impactful for--which teachers are great. I love all teachers and they're very impactful. I can name a few throughout my life that I still value so much, and they--but I looked at my life and I looked at my platform and yes, I could sit and to have 25 kids in my classroom and impact them, which is huge. But then I realized that I can use this platform that I've created in swimming, in sport and talk about mental health and talk about journey and talk about experience and story and educate and empower others to get that help. And that's kind of where my cousin's suicide led me on to this path of this mental health journey of empowering and educating others. Yeah, so much so. And I also, I can really feel the teacher vibe from you as well. And it's just, it's remarkable that you've, you know, stepped into a space where you can occupy that, like, the joy and influence that teachers have. In such a way with your platform, it's remarkable. Really remarkable. And Christine, I mean, it's "I can. I will. I am. I do." Did I get that right? Is that what it is? I've heard you on the bike so many times. I know I didn't do that right. I am. I can. and I will. I do. Thank you. Think of it this way. We all know, or at least at some point have some idea about where we want to go, where we'd like our lives to be. A destination. And let's say we call an Uber to get to a destination or open up MapQuest. I keep saying MapQuest. I keep telling--I keep being told not to say MapQuest because I'm dating myself. Anyway, you open one of these map apps because you know where you want to go. You put on your destination, but you cannot figure out how to get where you want to go if you do not know where you are. You have to know your current location, your internal emotional, psychological state of being. Where are you? I am scared. I am frustrated. I am unsure. That's where you are and you can be also willing to take the risk at the same time. You can be many, many things all at one time and identifying all of those things to get a real clear picture of where you are, what your current state of being is,

and then recognizing what is possible: 52:02

I can. Then deciding a course and intention and then--I will. And then doing it. What action you do or don't take about where you are in order to get where you want to go. So that's how--that's why it's in that order. But it didn't come to me like that. I was teaching a class like in 2004 or 5 at an Equinox, and I was playing these Japanese koto drums and told everybody to turn it up until you think you can't handle it and then tell yourself, I am, I can, I will, I do, let's go. And the room went, "whoa!" And I was like, oh, that was cool. And it kind of stuck. One last thing I'll say about that is positive self-talk is not my jam. I help-- my aim is to help people go from negative self-talk to productive self-talk. You just go to look in the mirror sometimes, you're not going to be like, "I love my body and mean it," and we don't have to. I think that can be a little toxic. But to say, I can appreciate what those thighs can do. I can appreciate how high I can jump or how far I can run. Because every time we look at our bodies in the mirror, unless we are rock solid, the idea, the comparison as women, the comparison monster is so present. And so self-talk, it all comes back to self-talk. Yeah. And that reframe from positive to productive also just really, really stands out to me as a particularly effective grounding tool, so really, really appreciate that. Thank you. And Rachel, you shared a little bit about, you know, your training environment. Would you mind also just getting into how you advocate for your own mental health while competing? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is kind of like how I said earlier, is not tying your self worth to the results. I think that's really hard to do in any sport. You work so hard. Your life day-in, day-out is geared towards a certain result. But through a lot of practice, I think you need to establish no matter what happens today, no matter how I do, no matter how I perform, there are so many factors that go into this one result. You can't tie self-worth to it. You know, this isn't who I am. And kind of how Imani said, you're not just an athlete, you're a person who does this. So you're also a person who has self-worth outside of your sport, you know? And that's the thing I'm always kind of writing down or reminding myself that, you know, I can be super invested in my result. I can say I really, really want to do well, you know, everything I work towards is here in my hands. I need to just take it. But I can also give myself some grace and say, well, that doesn't determine who I am or how I am as a person or anything like that. So I think just separating the two, kind of having two different, I guess, realms, you could say, reminding yourself that they both can coexist is kind of how I handle all of that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Very, very much. So I wish we could talk all day, but I understand we can't. So I'm just going to ask one last question of each of you. You know, Imani, you invoked your younger self in this conversation. And I think it would be wonderful to hear from each of you just if you could tell your younger selves something about your mental health journey, your work, your person, what would it be? Whoever wants to go first. I can start. Go for it. I think I would tell myself that you are still you on the bad days, and you're still worthy of all of the things. I think I'm very blessed now to have created an environment of my family and friends and chosen family at that as well, that still love me when I stuck. And when I say suck, I mean both when I have a bad game or also when I'm just having a very bad day and I'm not very great to be around. And I think a lot of times, at least for me, growing up in like a performance-based household in terms of like, I got the good grades, I was really good at sports. I thought that my worth and like my ability to be loved had only existed when I was okay or doing great or, you know, being the best. And so I would tell my younger self that you are still you and still worthy to be loved even when you're not great. Thank you. I'll echo it. I mean, my advice is similar. Just be authentically you. And that's every single layer of you. I think for so long I was the happy-go-lucky little girl. Very grateful girl. And yes, that's still me to the core today. But there's a lot of other pieces and layers. And if we look at it as a whole puzzle, each piece of me is a puzzle, and I want it to be a complete puzzle with every single piece. So be authentically you. And that's okay. That's all this world needs is your authentic self and realizing that is, it's not just my story, but it's so many other people go through the same story and they just go through it quietly and by speaking out about it and being authentically you, it makes it okay for others to do the same and be authentically themselves. So I am motivated by being authentically myself. I am motivated by hearing each of your stories, being authentically yourself. I would piggyback off that a little bit and just say to remember that you shouldn't compare yourself. Comparison is the thief of joy, and nobody's journey is linear. Your journey is going to look very different than the person next to you. And so yeah, I agree with Allison saying, you need to fully embrace all that is you and not look at the next person, not look at who came before you, not look at who's maybe coming after, but focus on your own journey and what brings you joy within that. And building on all of that. I mean, it all boils down to this, this one thing. In a world that is constantly trying to teach us that we need to be something other than what we are in order to matter, I like to quote Shakespeare."This above all, to thine own self be true. And then it shall follow as the night, the day that thou canst then be untrue to any." And I have that tattooed on my arm as a constant reminder, as you have all said, to be true to ourselves. We're taught not to be true to ourselves in order to be polite. And it's not being impolite to be true to ourselves if we are-- if we understand where it's coming from. Because what--taking care of ourselves matters as much as everybody else taking care of themselves. From a recovering people-pleaser, looking for people-pleasing, I appreciate hearing that. We have to--we have to grant ourselves permission to take care of ourselves. We don't need anybody else's permission. So we need to give it to ourselves. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I love this conversation so much. I love a conversation about sport and mental health that concludes with Shakespeare. Thank you for invoking those words, Christine. Absolutely brilliant. And you all--Allison, I think you were just speaking about a puzzle. Was it Imani? Allison? Forgive me, Allison. But you all, to me right now, feel like such a put together puzzle, of all of you and your words and your wisdom. And I'm super appreciative of being a part of it today. So thank you all so much. Thank you, NAMI, for having us, for the transformative work that you do for communities all around this country. And be well, everybody.