The Role of Hope As You Heal Featuring Joshua Bassett

Joshua Bassett, popular musician and actor best known for his role in “High School Musical: The Musical: The Series,” joins the podcast for an exploration into coming of age under constant evaluation. Joshua’s new book, “Rookie: My Public, Private, and Secret Life,” was released this week, published as Mental Health Awareness Month begins. As a young person struggling with anxiety and addiction, Joshua learned that the journey to recovery is often not linear. In this episode, listeners will hear NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. and Joshua discuss the keys to Joshua’s recovery, how acting in a high-profile show impacted his identity and growth, the ways art surpasses performance and becomes survival, the role of hope in his healing journey, and more. 

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. 

Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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Love is the reason we get up. Love is the reason we keep going. Love is the reason we serve. Love is the reason we do anything. And so when you when you hold on to love, that's where hope comes naturally. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I'm your host, Dan Gillison, NAMI's CEO. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories. Hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone. Our guest today, Joshua Bassett, an American actor, singer-songwriter, and musician best known for his role in Disney

Plus's High School Musical: 1:12

The Musical: The Series.

Author of Rookie: 1:17

My Public, Private and Secret Life, published just this week at the start of Mental Health Awareness Month. A memoir in verse told through poems and prayers. Is a coming-of-age story for the anxious generation, told by someone whose life is unusually visible, but whose emotional experience is widely shared. Joshua is also a NAMI ambassador, partnering with NAMI, donating $1 for every preorder of his new book, placed by January 15th earlier this year. Joshua's goal is to give young people permission to share their stories and start before they're ready. Welcome, Joshua to Hope starts with us and thank you for becoming a NAMI ambassador and joining us today, and we're so glad you're joining us. Thank you so much, Dan. I mean, thank you for paving the way and pioneering such an awesome, wonderful organization that's truly helping so many people of so many different ages. I was so inspired, just speaking to some of your, some of your partners and what you guys do is just so beautiful. So thank you guys for paving the way. I'm just happy to kind of join the, join the parade. Well, you know what? It's so important. Your voice is so critically important. And as we said at the top of this introduction, whose life is unusually visible. You know, it's-- Joshua, we'll get into that. But it reminds me of the cover of a book. And what you're going to do is, is really take us into the to the, to the table of contents and the chapters. And thank you for taking us inside that book and that book being you and what you are so interested in sharing with us. So we're glad that you're joining us to help us kick off Mental Health Awareness Month and NAMI's theme this year, Joshua, is really, really important. Stigma grows in silence. Healing begins in community. That is all about sharing stories, showing how community supports recovery, and connecting with each other. Would you start our conversation today by telling our listeners your story, and what led you to becoming a mental health advocate, Joshua? Absolutely. I mean, you know, I'll try to not take too much of your time with the story, but yeah, so I was, I was homeschooled, technically, but I like to say that I was "no schooled" because realistically, I was not really doing any schoolwork, but I was a very creative child, and I did a lot of theater growing up as well and was constantly creating, you know, at any second I was awake, essentially making videos, making songs. I had the freedom to kind of be very creative, but I also felt very, felt very alone. I have five sisters, and I kind of felt like the black sheep of the family and, you know, was often kind of teased for being homeschooled or for not knowing things. And so I always felt very stupid. And that was a very debilitating thing. And I felt socially stunted because of that as well. And so, you know, basically when I was 16, I started to pick up some work in LA, and I moved out on my own completely to live in my car in LA. And it's not like I had a falling out with my parents, but it was just circumstantial that I ended up making-- It ended up making sense for me to kind of be out there on my own, and I felt like I was mature for my age. And so, yeah, I was basically living in my car, you know, showering at the gym, working in Hollywood. And I was very fortunate to be very successful very early on and sort of as my career took off, you know, I was writing songs for the show High School Musical, and I was "living the dream," as they say. And just as soon as I started sort of have that success, I was also met with quite an ugly sort of online--what's the word? I guess you could say attack. But, you know, there was just a lot of things being said about me and, you know, false assumptions and or just ways in which you know how it works with the media and how things can kind of be blown out of proportion. And so, essentially, I experienced heart failure and septic shock after about seven days of just not being able to get out of bed. And we can go into all the reasons for why that is. And, you know, a large reason they believe is because of stress. But regardless, I ended up having heart failure and was given 12 hours to live, essentially, in the hospital. They said if I hadn't checked in within 12 hours, I would have been found in my apartment. End quote. And in the hospital my mom was able to join me there. When the doctors left the room, I said, I need help out loud to an empty room, and when I said I need help, I had full body chills. The doctors came back and said, we don't know what changed, but you're getting better. And I was supposed to have myocarditis for the rest of my life. And limited diet, limited exercise. They did tests and they said, we never seen this, but it's as though it never happened. And when the doctors use the word miracle, you know, it's got to be something because they never want to use the word miracle. You know, there's always some scientific explanation. But all it took was me saying "I need help," which I think is very interesting. We can get down to that later. But even though I was physically healed, I was-- it began like the worst few years of my entire life. I was struggling with all kinds of addictions and all kinds of mental illness, and there are many days in which I actually wish that I hadn't made it out of the hospital because of the daily hell that I was experiencing. And at rock bottom, I had a sort of a spiritual encounter with Jesus, which might be where I lose some people, but that's okay. I experienced peace for the first time and have kind of rebuilt my life on what really matters, which is to serve and to love and community. And so I've done my best to be open and honest, because the reality is a lot of mental illness is due to shame. Some of it is due to imbalances in the brain, some of it is due to rejection. There's no end, I guess, to the list of things that might cause mental illness. And I feel like I've experienced so many of them. And I've found that being vulnerable invites other people to be vulnerable. And the, you know, sort of the truth is, like yesterday, for example, I was having a really, really, really hard day and I almost didn't want to come onto this podcast because I was like, who am I to talk about mental illness or sort of the recovery when I feel like I am sometimes not stable. And I think what's beautiful is being able to be completely raw and honest about the journey. And some days are up and sometimes you swing down and I think it's more important to be honest. Every now and again, you know, I have those struggles to where I think I'm doing all right. And then all of a sudden I'm kind of hit with a tidal wave of emotion or sadness or grief or despair. And yesterday I was really, really, really at a low point and I was just like, so ready to just like, you know, not do all my response-- but I was feeling so much agony internally and I ended up, you know, crying for a couple hours. And I reached out to a friend and we had a wonderful night, and I feel a lot better today. All that to say, I'm saying this because the mental health journey is never linear and it's messy and complicated, but the most important thing is to reach out for help. Like I said, when you need help. And so I'm still learning every day the sort of tools both from a practical perspective of, you know, understanding the vagus nerve and our nervous system and how a lot of times when our nervous systems are out of whack, it leads to a lot of mental health issues. So there's a practical side to it. There's a spiritual side. There's a community, personal, emotional side to it. And I'm still learning every day all the different tools on how to live a better and more balanced life. And that's not to say you don't experience ups and downs, but it's learning the tools to get through that. And that's what I hope to bring people with my book. That's what I hope to do with my whole life, is to help equip people with the tools and with the hope and with the resilience to get through whatever it is that they're going through. So that was a whole lot. Feel free to, you know, jump in on anything there. But I wasn't sure what to leave in and what to take out. You know what? No, don't take anything out. Bring it all in, Joshua. Now I want to start. First of all, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. You've already helped so many just with what you've shared so far. Let's call that a sound bite. You know, about sound bites and that kind of thing. You talked about tools. You talked about hope. You talk about resilience. You also said something I want to pause on it. That was, you almost didn't want to come on this podcast because of how you were feeling yesterday. We want to make sure you know that you sharing your story--you mentioned this word vulnerability. There's so much strength in your vulnerability and you and your authenticity. We often say people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. So you're demonstrating how much you care by sharing your story and being vulnerable. So thank you for your authenticity. And I want to make sure that you're feeling good about this conversation, because that's what this is. This is a conversation back and forth. But the point of the conversation is to to help others and to be Joshua. So thank you. And thank you for being an ambassador for Joshua because, I mean for NAMI excuse me, Joshua, because this is fantastic. And maybe that wasn't a faux pas when I said being an ambassador for Joshua, because you have to be your greatest advocate at this point, and I'm hearing that in your story and what you're sharing. So thank you for being an advocate for yourself, for Joshua, and also for being an ambassador for us. So let's get this story going and thank you. And there's nothing that you've said that is not accurate. You talked about now where you are, your station of life is to serve, to love. And it's about community. And you talked about a number of things that I took some notes on. So I want to stay inside of what you've discussed, but I want you to feel comfortable in sharing what you'd like to share. And so you mentioned we know that recovery is often not linear. And your book you wrote, "Getting better didn't happen all at once. It happened in inches." What were some of the key factors for you in achieving recovery? I think you've shared some of that with us, but let's back up a second and let's talk about that for our listeners. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. You know, I don't know if I talked about this in the book or I talk about this all the time, but there's this thing, Rat Park. I don't know if you've heard about it, but I'm always talking about Rat Park. Oftentimes we think, oh, if you just take away the substance, and this substance can be anything, right? Social media, sugar, it can be all, the whole spectrum of things we used to numb. If you just take that away, then that'll cure the addiction. But the reality is it was in connection that they found there was freedom from that in the rats. And think about how much more that is true for humans. And I think oftentimes there's a stigma around addiction, and there's a lot of shaming and blaming people who are addicted. And you look at, maybe you walk by someone on the street who's unhoused, and you look at them with a little bit of judgment of like, oh, well, you know, it's your fault you got to this place. You know, sometimes people can assume that and not understanding, you know, the traumas and the things that person has been through that I bet if you walk their life you would be coping with heroin as well, and or a cigarette and or whatever you get your hands on. So to answer your question, going back, I think the most fundamental thing I would say that has been crucial has been connection. And there are just some wonderful friends who have held my hand through the fire. And what I love about what NAMI does is connects you with community, right? There's council and that's super important, right? Having the right people who are experts in their field to understand the human mind and brain and biology and all that stuff is crucial. But ultimately, without love and connection, it's just information. And, you know, I think we live in a world that is so unbelievably divided and dark and scary and cold, and people don't feel safe in their own homes. They don't feel safe at school, they don't feel safe online. And so it leads to this isolation. And that is where mental illness thrives in isolation. So I could give you all the tools that I found on how to regulate my nervous system and how to, you know, work through an emotion or how to et cetera, etc., etc. we can get into all those. They're very valuable. And I have many, many tools that I pull from a different times. But I would say the common denominator, the one most important thing has been connection. And that's my personal connection to God. And you know, the word God can have a stigma, and a lot of people might be turned off by the word God because they've been hurt by people who claim to be in the name of God, in the name of love, and have not represented God well. But the God I know does not discriminate. And anyone who reaches out for help from God, God will come and help them. And so I would say my connection to God, but also mainly through my relationships have I found healing and stability. And I think the most important thing too, is just giving myself the grace and the time to heal and not rushing it, you know, and allowing myself to have bad days and whatnot. But continuing to process and grieve and healing gets stronger. And so again, it's messy and it's been forward, backward, up, down, in and out. But I would say that I would point to the people in my life, the rocks that I was able to lean on and God, I'd say are my two biggest. Joshua, this is, this is fantastic. And you, you framed it for us. It's about connections. And you talked about grace. You talked about time. You talked about God. You know it is everything. All of these components and more that connect you to what helps you navigate this. And thank you for sharing that. And you know, also to any of your friends that are listening, that are part of your community, I want to say thank you to them. So I just want to go on the record to say that on behalf of NAMI. So, you know, coming of age in the limelight of, in the limelight is notoriously difficult. I mean, it's just overwhelming and maybe even more in today's age of social media. How did growing up as an actor impact you, as you developed your identity and discovered who Joshua would be? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think, you know, what's interesting is a lot of people will be like, oh, you have had to become an adult with everyone knowing everything about you, quote unquote. But they don't know everything about me. They think they know things about me. And so you're not just dealing with public perception, but a skewed public perception. It can be frustrating to want to kind of correct things or to try and prove that you're not someone they think you are or whatever that is. And at the same time, there's also parts of myself that I'm not proud of that you know, just feel like amplified when the idea of like people, people knowing them. Sorry, this has been nonsensical. I guess, to answer your question, there's no difference to me between being in high school and having rumors spread around me in my theater group. There's no difference between that and sort of this on a public skill. I mean, the numbers are different and it's a little bit more inescapable, you know, but it's the same feeling. And so that's why I always say to people like, you know, it is very similar thing. It's just on a different scale now. And so in a way, I've been dealing with this my whole life, and in another way it's a whole different ball game in terms of scale. Again, forgive my scatterness here. Oh no, you're not scattered at all. And this again, this is an incredibly important conversation and a great conversation. So do not worry about where you're going or thinking or listening to what you're saying. So this is us having a conversation. So let's-- and you know what I've also listened for is peer pressure. What you talked about is "Hey Dan, the peer pressure isn't much different from high school. And being a thespian in high school, being in theater in high school. And then when you when you when you get into Hollywood, there's still that peer pressure and peer pressure can really impact your system." So that's what I heard you say. So, may I ask you a question in terms of, you also mentioned you were very creative growing up and you did talk about the peer pressure then and some of the social media, as you were discovering you and cultivating your identity because you're so creative, you're also musician. How did music play in the discovery of Joshua and who Joshua has grown to be? Yeah, well, there's, I say in the book, and it might sound cheesy, but I say"My heart writes the songs. I just write them down." And a lot of times when I kind of get out of the way, the song will kind of come through and I'll say something in a sort of freestyle that I didn't even realize that I meant. Or there's times where I'm on tour and I'm singing a song I've sung a hundred times and I like really finally understand the meaning of it that I didn't fully understand when I even wrote it. And so it's so interesting how that can work sometimes with creating music or art or poetry or whatever is sometimes you kind of discover something about yourself you didn't realize in the process of kind of getting it out, you know, and then you're able to look at it and unpack it. And, you know, music is such a cathartic thing, you know? And it's so cool because I also say in the book,"the artist paves the road so that the audience can stroll down it." And what I mean by that is when I'm creating, I'm doing the difficult work of having to sit with these uncomfortable emotions and really work through them and sort of craft this, this piece so that when somebody listens to it, they're able to have that cathartic, easy release. And so it's such a beautiful thing to go through things that I think are so personal and unique to me and find out that there's millions of other people who also resonate with that. And so that's been such a cool part of the healing journey. And that's just the power of music is that it's transformative. I always say the artist is an alchemist, and that you get to turn some deep pain into something beautiful. And so that has been, you know, a wonderful way for me to sort of get things out in a way that, again, gives me freedom and peace from it also is a way for me to speak truth. And I love, like, catchy-- I say in the book that music is either a catchy blessing or a catchy curse. And so I try to make songs-- so I've made many catchy curses, I try to make catchy blessings, things that when you hear them, they remind you of the good things in life, or they remind you of truths to hold on to. One of my songs All Due Time, you know, is about sort of hanging on in in those difficult moments, knowing that you'll be all right in due time, and the ability for that to kind of be a mantra almost for people is such a beautiful thing. But in terms of identity, you know, it's just one of those things where, you know, being put in the public eye in a way where your identity is being questioned or attacked or misconstrued or people you know, you have a unique identity to each person that's perceiving you. It forces you to have to take a step back from your identity and not identify, I guess, with their perception of you. And when you no longer find your worth in their perception of you. Obviously you don't want to be just like, completely oblivious. You know, you should be a little bit aware of, like, how you're being perceived, because I think there's a sense of like, there's a healthy amount of that. But at a certain point, taking a step back and not identifying with my songs, not identifying with the public version that people see of me and not allowing their insults or attacks to cut through me. You know, the people that care about me, that know me, if they have a problem with me, I'm going to listen to them. But if you don't care about me, like you said earlier, about people don't care about how much you know until they know how much you care. And for me, that's with people who have anything to say about me. You know, if you don't care about me, then I don't really, I don't really care what you have to say. Yeah, you just have to move on. You just, you know, it's about you feeling comfortable in your own skin and doing what you do for you. And you said some really-- "The artist is the alchemist." You also said, "the artist paves the road so the audience can walk down it." I don't know if I got it right, but you have so many quips in your book, I can't wait to get it. I just, it is fantastic. And there's some other things, you know, my heart writes the song and I just get out of the way of it. I mean, Joshua, this is so cool. And, you know, I remember as a, as a young, younger person, photography was something that I loved and writing prose. And I remember writing a prose in college called Depression in Me. And I still remember it almost 50 years later. So, you know, kudos to you in terms of how you using your creativity to do what you do. Now, based on the name of our podcast, I'm sure you can guess that hope means a lot to us at NAMI and to me personally, because if you're not hopeful, you're hopeless. So it's all about hope and what we say. Hope starts with us. So one more excerpt from Rookie really caught my attention."Hope didn't arrive like a miracle. It showed up like a decision." What does it mean to you to choose hope, Joshua? Yeah, I mean, I there's another chapter that says"you're responsible for your attitude." And while of course I don't blame anybody for not having hope, I'm not saying that, you know, that they've done something wrong for not having hope. I get it. You know, at a certain point, though, two people can go through the same experience and one can, you know, choose the side of gloom and doom, and the other can choose a side of, okay, this is an experience. And though it's remarkably painful and unbearable at times, and I'm not sure how I'm going to get through it, there's even 1% of resilience in your attitude, I think is necessary to get through it. And unfortunately we see that the statistics are alarming and you deal with them all the time with NAMI. And I'm sure it's a large reason why you've created NAMI, because, you know, I would say that the number one cause of suicide is hopelessness. Because ultimately, again, two people can go through the same experience and if someone doesn't have hope, then you know there's not much to hold on to, you know? But sometimes hope is all you have. And sometimes it takes deciding. And I think what's so important for why it's so important for me to be vulnerable and be honest and, and, and share my story is because maybe somebody can see a version of what they're going through and see me on the other side of it saying, trust me, keep going. There's light on the other side of the tunnel. And so, you know, when you see people have like a nice, easy life, their words don't have as much weight when they say, keep hanging on and just be optimistic or whatever. Like those words don't hold much weight because you're like, you don't understand. But when you see somebody who's maybe been through similar things as you or had similar experiences or thoughts or whatever, though no pain is the same. There is a universality to suffering. And when you see someone else walk through that and walk through it with victory, then it might give you that hope. And my friend read the book, an early draft of it, and I had not even thought of the book as a beacon of hope, really, at all. I didn't look at it through that lens until he said, kind of surprisingly had said the number one thing he took away from the book is that it's just like, saturated with hope. And I was so taken aback by that. And it really makes me emotional every time I think about it. Just because if I can give someone hope, then my life's work is done. You know, like if I can provide somebody with a glimmer of like, there is love and peace out there, it's possible, even if you're not experiencing it now, if that's the only message people get from my life were to amount to that message then it's a life well lived. Well, you've got you doing so much. You mentioned, you know, if someone gets the message out of the book, trust me, keep going, walk through it with victory. And as your friend said, hey, this is a beacon of hope. And this book is saturated with hope. So you are saying so much to so many right now. So thank you for this. And we know we always ask our guests at the end of the podcast and we've kind of been talking about it, but we do have this question we ask all of our guests at the at the end, the world can be a difficult place, Joshua. And sometimes it can be hard, hard to hold on to hope. That's why each episode we dedicate the last couple of minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold On to Hope. Would you tell us what helps you, Joshua, hold on to hope? Man, I think looking at everything I've been through thus far and what I've survived, and I think sometimes it's in looking back, I have a song called Look How You've Come. It's at the end of my album, The Golden Years, and it's like, you know, when you feel like giving up, just look back at how far you've come and keep going. And so seeing what I've been through gives me the strength to go and face another day, even if it gets a little harder or it gets turbulent, I'm able to remember that I've made it this far and I survived everything so far and so I can keep going. So I'd say that. And then again, I'd point back to my community. When I'm spinning out, I'm able to kind of connect with somebody that loves me, that grounds me and puts me back into a bit of a reality check. They helped me hold on to hope and of course, my faith in God. Outside of any sort of theological, you know, people have their perspectives on who they think God is and whatnot. But I look around at me at the beauty and the wonder in the world and the fact that I'm not the one keeping my heart beating. I'm not the one making my lungs breathe. I'm not the one providing the air. And so whatever is must be greater than I am. And the life is so beautiful, though it is dark and there are a lot of sufferings, and there's a lot of wickedness and darkness in the world. If you look around at the beauty and wonder that's also all around us, and choose to let that be what is something to cling on to, to keep going and again, love. Love is the hope, right? I mean, what is survival without love? You know, that's just existing. But love is the reason we get up. Love is the reason we keep going. Love is the reason we serve. Love is the reason we do anything. And so when you when you hold on to love. I think that's what where hope comes naturally. You know, thank you, Joshua and I just want to say, as we get ready to close this out, I want our listeners to understand where Joshua started his conversation. And we know Joshua is an American actor, a singer-songwriter, and a musician. And he's best known for his role in Disney Plus's High School Musical:

The Musical: 28:19

The Series. Why am I repeating that? We said it at the intro, but I'm saying it now because that's the cover of Joshua's book. Joshua took us into the table of contents in the chapters. Joshua said he had heart failure, septic shock. He felt it was from stress and he was told by the medical professionals he had 12 hours to live. Now, that's not that public image that you saw. That is a part of Joshua's reality and his journey, from that to this in terms of who this, this young man is and what he is doing and sharing his story is incredibly powerful and very important for all of us to understand. So I want to say that at the outset, Joshua, thank you. Thank you very much for sharing your story. Thank you for being an ambassador for NAMI. And you're going to help so many, so many others. And this is just the beginning of you sharing your voice. Dan, thank you so much. I just want to also again, honor you for everything you're doing with NAMI and for really doing the hard work. And I know you're just closing out the podcast, but I just wanted to say again, it's truly inspiring to see people who put their money where their mouth is and who really do create spaces and are really doing real change in the world. We need more people like you, Dan, and what you're doing is just absolutely blowing me away. And I'm so inspired by everything you're doing with NAMI. And no small thing you do goes unnoticed. So thank you again for dedicating your life to the betterment of others and giving people hope. It truly has moved me and I'm so thankful. Joshua, that means so very much. And while the title behind my name says CEO, I always say that I do this work as a as a dad and as a son and as an uncle. And that's how I do this work. And if there's anything that we can do on behalf of you, Joshua, consider it done. Proud to know you. Proud to bring you into the family called NAMI. And, you know, thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. And you shared it so very well. And I hope you feel good about it. How do you feel about our conversation today? Oh, I feel fantastic. Thank you for asking such brilliant questions. And I feel like you've just been such a safe space to talk about what really matters in life. So yeah, it's been awesome and very grateful. Thank you so much. You got to take good care of yourself and you got to you got to make sure that you reach out to us. Reach out to me. When whenever you're having those moments, you have your network. But, you know, put me in that network too if you care to. It's up to you. It takes love and it takes all of us. So, you know, that's fantastic. I'll tell you. I was on Capitol Hill. We were testifying on something, and one of the, one of the legislators, he had to be on the floor to actually vote. So he was late coming to the session, and all of his colleagues had already asked all of the metric questions, all of the, you know, data questions. So when he got back, he said, well, I got one last question for you all. I want to know--and we were all mental health professionals there--and he says, "what does love have to do with it?" And you made me think about that, that that's what that ledger says. What does love have to do with it? And, and we answer to say love has everything to do with it. Well, it has everything to do with it. Without love, we wouldn't be doing what we're doing. We wouldn't care. And how people know that there is a way forward is if they feel love. So, you know, thank you for bringing that back up because it made me think back to that. And that was last year. So thank you, Joshua. It's awesome. Thank you. Thank you. So this has been Hope Starts With Us a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. If you're looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit nami.org/help. Text NAMI to 62640 or call 800 950 NAMI. Or if you're experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call a text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. I'm Dan Gillison, your host. Thanks for listening and be well.