Building a Welcoming, Loving World Featuring Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen, Taylor Locke, and Hannah Wesolowski

In honor of Pride Month, this episode explores mental health for LGBTQ+ young people. NAMI’s Chief Advocacy Officer Hannah Wesolowski is joined by Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen (The Trevor Project) and Taylor Locke (NAMI Next Gen, NAMI New York State). Together, the trio discusses recent research from The Trevor Project about mental health among LGBTQ+ youth, the importance of supportive adults for LGBTQ+ young people, how communities can reduce the risk of suicide for young queer people, and more. 

Learn more from The Trevor Project's research here. 

Mental health care isn't one-size-fits-all. NAMI knows the importance of culturally responsive care and support, so we're celebrating with the "Seen. Heard. Understood." campaign. 

Find an event near you. See yourself in the community. Make your story heard. Find understanding support. 

Visit nami.org/BebeMoore to learn more. 

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

"Hope Starts With Us" is a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It is hosted by NAMI CEO Daniel H. Gillison, Jr. 

Co-executive produced by Traci Coulter and Connor Larsen.

Transcript

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We have to explicitly signal to LGBTQ plus young people that a place is safe and welcoming, or they're not going to think that it is, and therefore they're less likely to reach out for help when they need it. That's why it's really essential that we have specialized services like 988 Press 3. Hello. Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I'm your guest host today, Hannah Wesolowski, NAMI's Chief Advocacy Officer and I use she/her pronouns. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible. Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories, and hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, you made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you're not alone. So today I am delighted to be joined by two special guests. I'd like to welcome Rodrigo Heng-Lehtinen, Senior Vice President of public engagement campaigns at the Trevor Project. Hi, Rodrigo. Hi. Thanks for having me. Yes, well, thank you for being here. The Trevor Project is the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention nonprofit for LGBTQ plus young people. NAMI is proud to work side by side with The Trevor Project in our advocacy, and I'm also delighted to welcome Taylor Locke. Taylor is a member of NAMI NextGen, our 2026 cohort, incredible leader in NAMI's community, and Taylor also serves as Program Manager at NAMI New York State. Hi, Taylor. Hi, Hannah. Thank you so much. Very much looking forward to today's conversation. Me too, me too. And what we're going to talk about today is really highlighting Pride Month and the mental health of the LGBTQ plus community. Just to give some high level stats to start this off, Trevor Project, you all do amazing job. You do the national survey on the mental health of LGBTQ plus young people, and I want to share a few startling numbers for our listeners today. These are important numbers, so make sure you sit back and listen. 44% of LGBTQ plus youth who wanted mental health care in the past year were not able to get it. 44%. 36% of LGBTQ plus young people seriously considered attempting suicide in the past year. That's more than 1 in 3. And 1 in 10 LGBTQ plus young people attempted suicide in the past year. This is unacceptable. We have so much work to do, and yet we've also come so far. So in today's episodes, we're going to talk about our guests' own lived experience, as well as steps that we can take to build a more welcoming, loving world where everyone can get the mental health care that they need and that they deserve. So, Taylor, Rodrigo, thank you for being here. And let's get into the conversation. So, Rodrigo, I want to start with you. Can you set the stage for our listeners and tell us a bit more about the Trevor Project's research, why you do it, and sorry for stealing a little bit of your thunder by sharing some of those stats, but some of the key findings and what you learned from them. Well, that is the best way to have our thunder be stolen by having our research cited up top. So we love it. Well, thank you again for the invitation to join you all here today. I mean, as you mentioned, Trevor Project, we're the leading suicide prevention and crisis intervention organization for LGBTQ plus young people, what were most known for is our 24/7 crisis services. We have call, text, and chat for any LGBTQ young person who needs somebody to talk to. But what some folks don't know is that in addition to those life saving services, we also have a number of prevention programs. Our goal ultimately is to keep LGBTQ young people from entering that kind of crisis in the first place. So in order to do that, we have to know what young people on the ground are experiencing day to day and what impacts are happening on their mental health. So that's where our research comes into play. Over the last several years, Trevor Project has conducted some of the largest and in some cases, the only studies that examine the mental health of LGBTQ plus young people here in the US. And our latest publication was just released last month, just released in May. There is a treasure trove of data out there, so I really encourage people to check out our website to learn more. But we surveyed more than 16,000 LGBTQ plus young people, ages 13 to 24, all across the United States. This is our seventh national survey, so we're also able to see changes over time. And these really give a lot of insight, both into the risk factors that negatively impact young people's mental health, but also the protective factors that support their well-being. So that's, I think, really exciting that we get to see both sides of that coin. Yeah, and I use the research quite often when I'm out there advocating. And so very grateful to you all for doing it. What can you tell us about some of the trends or findings from this year's report that show us why our advocacy for LGBTQ plus young people is so important right now? Well, two big things really came out. One was the severity. You know, sadly, it just was undeniable in the data that LGBTQ plus young people are facing an urgent mental health crisis. And secondly, well, really emerged was that this crisis is not because of just the sheer fact of being LGBTQ plus, but rather because of how young people are mistreated as a result of their identity. And that's a really, really important distinction. So on the first piece about the severity of the crisis, you cited some of these statistics up at the top. But overall, we found that LGBTQ plus young people face high rates of considering suicide and of attempted suicide. And the rates, tragically, are even higher for transgender and non-binary young people in particular. We also said that LGBTQ youth of color experience higher rates of suicide risks compared to their white peers, and the study showed that 1 in 10 young people attempted suicide in the past year. Not just considered, but attempted. 1 in 10 is obviously far too high. And then to the second point about the contributing factors here, our latest survey really made it clear that LGBTQ plus young people are experiencing these higher rates not because of who they are, but because of how they're stigmatized by others. So, you know, these young people are facing a lot of challenges that they're straight or cisgender, meaning non transgender peers may not have to worry about. But again, it's not just that an inherent part of being LGBT. It's really about the discrimination. There was a whole category of behavior or experiences that young people reported having that fall under the umbrella of anti-LGBTQ victimization. So that's things like being bullied, being physically threatened, being harmed, being discriminated against because of their sexual orientation or gender identity, being subjected to conversion therapy, so on and so forth. This is really about how other people are treating them especially more often the adults in their lives are treating them. We found that those who experienced any of those anti-LGBTQ victimization were three times as likely to attempt suicide in the past year, actually I take that back, more than three times as likely to attempt suicide compared to their peers. Still, LGBTQ plus young people who did not have any of those experiences. So this really paints a picture, makes it undeniable that it's about how they are being treated. And to me, that does give a bit of a silver lining, because it means this is preventable. It means we can actually change it. It's not something beyond our control. It's something we as adults, especially and as allies, can. If we can change how a young person is treated, then we can end this mental health crisis. Yeah. And what you said this mental health crisis is not about who they are, but how they are stigmatized and discriminated against. And that we can do something about it is really powerful and something that I hope everyone walks away thinking about how they can contribute to that. We'll talk about that more. Taylor, I want to bring you into the conversation. You're a young leader at NAMI. You work with NAMI New York State. You're part of NAMI Next Gen cohort, which is an amazing group of young people who are helping to make sure that NAMI doesn't just try to reach young people, but that is inclusive of young people and that you're really represented in the work that we do throughout the organization. So thank you for that. But I would love to hear what was your path, what led you to becoming a mental health advocate and being here with us today? Thank you, Hannah. And I also just want to say thank you to NAMI. It's such a great organization and is really just empowered me so much as a young advocate to be where I am today in the mental health space. I never really planned on going into mental health advocacy. I did my undergraduate studies in math and physics, and I was actually in a military scholarship program for ROTC to work on nuclear reactors for the United States Navy upon graduating from school. So very, very different set of life circumstances that brought me to where I am today. But, you know, when I was going to school, it was during the start of the pandemic with COVID, so it was isolation. And a little bit of an activation trigger warning. I was sexually assaulted during my freshman year of college on campus, and what really stood out to me at the time wasn't so much of what I was going through with the assault and the mental health challenges I had, but the way that I was being treated by my school, my institution, with like the victim blaming and putting me on an involuntary medical leave of absence, sending me as a queer person back home to a toxic environment that wasn't accepting. And the contrast between that and the support that I received from my military advisors was shocking, because I received significantly more support from my military advisors, for my mental health challenges, for the assault and even being a queer person than I did from my institution of higher learning. And that was just, again, something that was completely shocking to me and really eye opening to the way that our systems are built and our failing young people, particularly young queer people. And it was kind of overcoming all of that. That really started me on my advocacy journey of turning my pain into purpose through my lived experience, to try to change and challenge these systems. So that way, we can be better at supporting young people and meeting them where they are. Thank you for talking with us, and thank you for your advocacy to help other people, to make sure that the generation that follows us has every resource, every ounce of support that they deserve and can lead a healthy and fulfilling life. Rodrigo, I'd love to hear a little bit about your journey, about how you came here and how you, you know, came to be working and this mental health advocacy world. Sure. Well, I really came into this also by accident. So in some ways, what Taylor, what you shared kind of reminds me of the not straightforward path. But for me, it was also born out of personal experience. I'm a transgender man, so that means I was raised as a girl but ultimately transitioned to live as a man I know myself to be. And when I was growing up, I didn't really know anything about what it meant to be trans. I didn't know that word. It wasn't on my radar. And so I-- and I really struggled. As a result. I was depressed, I was feeling like I couldn't connect with people and I couldn't figure out why. Because objectively, quite a lot of things in my life were going well, so I didn't really know why I was struggling. But later, when I was in college, I had the opportunity to meet other trans people and to learn about transgender history and transgender topics. And all of a sudden it was like a light bulb went off. I knew who I was, I knew what was going on, and it was like a fog lifted. I mean, really, that was transformational in terms of my mental health. Now, looking back on those mental health struggles I was having, especially as a teenager, it's almost like it happened to somebody else, you know, because now there's such a contrast in a good way. Now I'm feeling very much able to have relationships, I've been married for over a decade. I'm thriving in my career, and this is all positive. So and I share that to really-- because it's what a lot of other trans people experience as well. Not universally everybody's different but it does paint this picture that a lot of us have of or a lot of us trans people experience where we were struggling before, whether we could put our finger on it or not. Something was not clicking. And then when we were able to live as our authentic selves, it's like it clicked into place. And I want every trans person to be able to have that experience. I don't want another person like me to spend their teenage years feeling isolated and alone and unsupported when they don't have to. This is a solvable problem. This is absolutely preventable. And, you know, I would just add that sometimes people can kind of misconstrue this experience to think, well, if you hadn't learned, if you hadn't been exposed to transgender ideas, then you wouldn't be transgender. But the truth is, I was always transgender. I just didn't have the words. And having the words that allowed me to get support and acceptance and be able to thrive. So the--it's not as simple as just black or white. You can't turn off being trans, and you can't deprive a child of the knowledge that trans people exist and think that that will change who they are. We are who we are no matter what language we have. But if we have the language and we have the support, and we have adults in our lives who can help us, then we can thrive. So that's what can turn that experience around. So that's how I came to this work. And I'm really trying to make a path so that other young people who are struggling can see that they can have a bright, healthy future no matter what it looks like today. I love that, and I love that both of you have used your own lived experience to really, truly help others and hopefully make their path easier. And so I just feel so fortunate I get to have this conversation with you today. I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the barriers that are out there. We talked at the top about how 44% of LGBTQ plus young people who wanted mental health care could not get it, 44% could not get it. That's disturbing, but not altogether surprising. And I'm hoping each of you can talk a little bit-- what are some of the barriers that we are seeing that are keeping people from getting the care that they need? Rodrigo, I'll go to you first. We'd love to hear your thoughts. Sure. Well, we did ask young people about this in our research to again, we don't want to make assumptions. We want to really verify and verify any inclinations we may have or any guesses. We have to make sure it's rooted in the evidence. And what we found is that there is a whole variety of barriers, but some of the top ones were number one, that they could not afford it. That's not unique to LGBTQ plus young people, right? But it is still a widespread problem. Number two, I was afraid to talk about my mental health concerns with someone else. I was afraid I wouldn't be--and

then all the ones: 17:15

I was afraid I wouldn't be taken seriously. I was scared someone would call the police or involuntarily hospitalized me, or I did not feel that they would understand my sexual orientation or gender identity. So there are these very concrete logistical barriers, like cost and transportation that are critical. And then there's these emotional barriers around fear of how you will be treated. A lot of LGBTQ plus young people are nervous that they won't be understood. Or they're afraid that they will face negative consequences for seeking mental health care. One thing that's really important, I think, especially for adults to keep in mind, is that when any of us, adult or a young person, think about talking with therapists or reaching out to any kind of official institution, there can be disproportionate concerns for LGBT people about outing, about the paper trail, and especially for LGBTQ plus people who are minors. There's a lot of worry about if I reach out for help, is that going to trigger some kind of notification to my parents or caretakers or teachers that could have ripple effects because not everybody is out necessarily. Some of these young people might be questioning, so they're not even ready to make any kind of declarative statement. And there's a lot of worry about being outed or being sort of exposed when they're not ready, when they're not ready for that. So I think there's a lot of work we have to do as a society to destigmatize asking for help, period. You know, for all of us in our society, but also to make a more safe and welcoming environment for LGBTQ young people who have some specific concerns. Yeah. And I'll just say on that last point, you know, obviously it doesn't speak to the entirety of the care continuum. But, you know, when somebody is in crisis, something that NAMI and The Trevor Project have worked closely on is restoring the Press 3 option and the 988 Suicide and Crisis Lifeline, which was the specialized services line for LGBTQ plus youth and young adults. So when they called 988, they could talk to somebody who understood them, who maybe had a shared language or shared background, or who had the training to understand what they were coming from. And unfortunately, that line was eliminated last July. Because of the leadership of the Trevor Project and NAMI was proud to be part of this work, you know, we have heard recently a commitment to bring back that line. Secretary Kennedy has confirmed in a hearing with the Senate that that's in progress and was part of a recent contract that 988 has to operate. So I want to thank the Trevor Project for their leadership on that. But I think that's just part and parcel of the larger ecosystem of making sure that young people feel supported and understood and safe when they're reaching out for help. Absolutely. I mean, we can see here that if a young person is struggling, which, by the way, they might be struggling because of something that has to do with being LGBTQ or not. But if they happen to be LGBTQ and they are hurting and they need somebody to talk to, we see from the data that it is critical that they feel confident that when they pick up the phone and call, the person who answers, is going to be thoughtful, is not going to interrogate them, is not going to threaten them with conversion therapy, in a really bad scenario. We have to explicitly signal to LGBTQ plus young people that a place is safe and welcoming, or they're not going to think that it is, and there, and therefore they're less likely to reach out for help when they need it. So we that's why it's really essential that we have specialized services like 988 Press 3. And thank you, NAMI, for all of your support in establishing 988 to begin with. And now in trying to bring it back, we have to have these services restored for these young people who are hurting today, right now. And the Trevor Project stands ready to work with anyone with the power to bet these services back online. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that these young people get the care that they need. And we will work with anyone it takes to get that done. Absolutely. We've got to work together to make it happen. Taylor, as somebody whose role with NAMI right now is to make sure that the conversations are reflective of, you know, the youth and young adult community and who's working with young adult leaders across the NAMI alliance. I'm wondering if the themes that The Trevor Project found in their research for barriers to accessing care kind of, you know, ring true to you. What have you been hearing as you're talking to other young people? What are the barriers that they're facing? Yeah, absolutely. I think first, you know, the fear around being outed is so real and valid. And I think there's such a huge parallel between the fear of being outed as a young queer person versus just being outed as someone with mental illness, like the fear and the stigma surrounding both of those issues are separate but so interrelated. So when you're asking trying to get care and support with your mental health challenges, but that's deeply and related to, you know, the gender dysphoria that you're feeling or trying to navigate your gender identity and your sexuality. There's just that additional outed layer to that. And I've seen it a lot with both through my own lived experience as well as other young people that I've worked with, having just that huge fear and societal stigma. And I think the other piece too kind of going back to about making sure that there are care providers that are understanding and supportive, but also you can resonate with. This is particularly prevalent across like schools at like both the K through 12 and the collegiate level with counseling centers where the majority of councilors are, you know, elderly, cis, straight white men. And that does not resonate with young queer people. And it also makes it that much harder to be able to start that conversation, because you're trying to open up about something that's deeply personal, and you don't know if you can trust this person, you don't have that connection. You're not able to resonate with someone. And that just leads to additional anxiety about trying to open up about these challenges. And I think another thing just in terms of direct access to care is also gender affirming care in addition to the removal of the Press 3 option on 998, there's also been major cuts and pushbacks to gender affirming care, or even just conversations about what gender affirming care or gender affirming language looks like. I know some NAMI state organizations and affiliates that have heard throughout the Alliance have shared that even like NAMI Ending the Silence, they're getting push back about being able to bring that into schools because of fears of you're coming into classrooms and teaching kids how to be trans. And it's like, that's not what that's about at all. And that's also not what gender affirming care is. That's just about, again, meeting young people where they are and supporting and accepting them. We're not going in there trying to convert people into being a certain way. It's about acceptance. So I think trying to be very open public understanding about what these conversations actually look like. And again, it's just at the end of the day, meeting young people where they are and giving them the support that they need. Well, said Taylor, it's so important that we show support and in so many ways, and there's unfortunately a plethora of challenges right now that are making young people feel disregarded and not seen. And, you know, kind of bringing it back to a statistic that you mentioned earlier, Rodrigo, think you said that young--a LGBTQ plus young person who does not live in, in accepting community has a suicide-- three times the suicide rate then LGBTQ plus young people who do live in accepting communities. I get that right. Yeah. Yeah that's right. And again, it really shows that this is a solvable problem because it-- as tragic as it is that those in unsupportive communities are struggling, it also means that on the other side of that coin, those who are in supportive communities are much more likely to thrive. So we can do something about this. We can turn, we can turn the needle. What does it look like to live in an accepting community? What can communities, what can all of us be doing to show young people that they're accepted and cared for and supported for who they are? What would be your suggestions or good reminders for our listeners today? Yeah, absolutely. Well, we also asked young people this in our survey. So I've got, you know, I'm just full of data here because our survey is hot off the presses. I love it. So what we asked them, themselves, what are some of the top actions that people in your life can take to show support and acceptance? What was scored the highest meaning the most, the highest number of LGBTQ young people said, this is what I want to see from

the adults around me: 27:03

Trust that I know who I am. Don't support politicians advancing anti-LGBTQ legislation. So to Taylor's point, there's been fortunately, a tsunami of especially anti-transgender laws being passed in in state legislatures. So that is top of mind for these young people, both those who are transgender or non-binary and those who are not, by the way, so non transgender, LGB, lesbian, gay or bisexual young people still take note of this and still see this as an indicator of whether or not this adult in their life is supportive of them. So trust that I know who I am. Don't support politicians advancing anti-LGBTQ plus legislation. Stand up for me. One thing that I draw from that is that the act of an adult standing up for you is important. Even if it doesn't work, so to speak. Meaning even--so, if some other adult is being disrespectful towards the young person and you as an ally, stand up for them. Maybe you don't successfully change the mind of the person who's committing that harassment. But the fact that you tried still matters. The young person still sees it, they notice it and that is encouraging. So I think it's important for us to not kind of throw in the towel and go, oh, well, that person is being disrespectful towards someone else. They can't be convinced, so why bother? The act of you bothering is important. That is, that is still critical and meaningful and we should all do it. Also show support for how I express my gender. That can mean things like clothing, you know, letting them dress in the clothing that feels right for them, how they wear their hair, you know, cutting their hair, styling their hair, adopting a new name, things like that means different things to different people, but show support for how I express my gender. Look up things about LGBTQ plus identities on your own to better understand. So some self-education. Ask questions about LGBTQ plus identities to better understand, have or display pride flags and show support on social media. And I'll remind us that our research shows that when an LGBTQ plus young person reports having even one accepting adult in their life, their odds of attempting suicide can lower by 40%, 4-0. So even if you are in an environment where other people around you might not be supportive, you even being that one teacher or that one therapist, or that one care provider, or that one social worker, or just friend, a parent of a friend, being that one adult can be very meaningful. 40%. Just having one person can reduce--wow, I mean that. So all the adults listening, be that person, be that person in your community, whether you're a parent, aunt, uncle, a teacher, or coach, a therapist, whatever your role is, if you're with some people, be that person, you can make such a difference. Taylor, what would you add? What can people do who are listening right now? Yeah, I think the first thing, obviously I just want to start with, like I agree so much with everything that Rodrigo shared. And I think that that really tells that, again, this is coming from the data that's informed by young queer people across the country. Again, I'm just seeing so many similar things in my work. I think one thing I'd add is a common misconception I see when we talk about like accepting spaces is people confuse acceptance with understanding and think that they need to fully understand someone else's lived experience or everything about like their gender identity and sexuality in order to accept them. And that can't be further from the case. Like, I do not understand how to read music notes. That doesn't mean I am like, oh, music just doesn't exist, and it doesn't mean that I can't listen to someone else who's performing music and respect that and appreciate the music that they're playing. And like, this is the exact same way of, you don't need to fully understand something like, yes, it's very-- it's important to take that initiative to self educate, because it also shouldn't fall on someone who's trans to have to continuously explain their gender identity to someone else. That's just, you know, tiresome and everything. That said, you don't have to fully understand, nor would you be able to necessarily fully understand someone's lived experience and unique gender identity and sexuality. So I think starting with that, that distinction is really important because I think for a lot of folks, too, that becomes a hurdle if they're trying to work towards acceptance where they feel overwhelmed, they feel that there's too-- it's too confusing, there's too much, you know, with everything, with all the different types of sexualities and gender identities out there, and they're not willing to take that first step. So I think noticing what that difference is, and on a similar note to something I get a lot is with the usage of just respecting people's pronouns, which is such a basic thing, but unfortunately just become such a problematic issue. And to that I say it's like it's not that hard, it's just a basic thing of you know, human decency and respect. If we're able to respect other people's names and, you know, there's thousands of those you can learn a few pronouns too. So I think that's another thing that's just really important to, again, just treating young queer people with the respect, the autonomy, the agency that they deserve. And if I could just piggyback off that. Taylor, I love what you said about the music notes. Yeah, I think in our very politicized environment, it can seem almost intimidating to learn about transgender people. I think our political environment has unfortunately made this seem, I don't know, it's made it more polarizing, which loses sight of the fact that these are just people, right? It's like I'm just a person trying to get up in the morning and go to work and then get to the grocery store on time afterwards like anybody else. Like it's not about me being trans, but about this idea of like, just that acceptance versus understanding. I just want to underscore that because, yeah, in this political environment especially, it can seem as the learning about trans issues is somehow so intense that it's like taking a college level course or something. But for most of the LGBTQ young people around us, what they're really looking for is to know that they are safe with you, that you're not going to hurt them, you're not going to try to change-- you're not trying to trying to deny that they're LGBT or change who they are and that you can be you are open to hearing them out and still treating them with respect, even if they happen to disclose that they're LGBT. It's really just about treating each other with decency and kindness no matter what. And the music notes thing reminded me that in our--in the Trevor Project survey, we had an open ended question of what is one thing you wish you could say to the other people in your life, if you could, if you could say only one thing and one of the responses was an analogy like that where the young person shared, I don't understand the laws of physics, but I still know gravity exists. I don't try to deny the existence of gravity just because I don't understand all the mathematical equations of how we discovered gravity. I just know it's a thing, right? I know it, I know it's a thing and I acknowledge it no matter what, even if I don't understand it. So it just, it's funny to hear that exact same, that same kind of analogy. I think it shows how important this is. People are just looking to be treated with respect. You don't need to understand all the intricacies. Let's just treat each other like human beings. Yeah, yeah, I think that's the perfect note to end on. Actually. We need to treat each other as human beings, and acceptance doesn't mean understanding, but it's about respect. So just one last question, something that we ask everyone who's on this podcast. You know, the world is a very difficult place, and it can be hard to hold on to hope. I know sometimes I struggle with that and have to recenter myself and think about what gives me hope. So in each episode, we have the last few minutes dedicated to holding on to hope. What helps each of you hold on to hope? Taylor, I'll go to you first. Yeah, I think for me, knowing that I'm not alone. I know earlier on when I was really struggling with my mental illness early my recovery journey, I felt like I was the only person in the world that felt that way. And it was through finding this community I've built up, through for my found family, through my work with NAMI, that I've been able to recognize that I am not alone, and also the power that I felt in being able to share my lived experience, to use my voice to empower others. So that way that they can feel that way too, has also just been so inspiring. And I think it's also worth noting that when communities come together, really just anything is possible. Like Rodrigo shared at the beginning, you know, there is so much hope and inspiration with, you know, empowering young queer people and the work that we're doing. So I think just remembering that and not giving up that hope. Amazing. Thank you for that. And we're glad that you found the NAMI community too. Rodrigo, what about you? What helps you hold on to hope? What helps me hold on to hope is seeing how significant of a difference one person can make. This is a tough political climate for a lot of us, even LGBT people specificity aside, we're seeing funding for a lot of mental health services across the board get cut, whether they be very deliberate budget cuts or just be kind of the ripple effects of other kind of contracting the economy. So, you know, there's-- it's understandable to be worried about the state of mental health in this country for LGBTQ plus young people and otherwise. But then it's so encouraging to see that even despite all these systemic barriers and these cultural problems and these really big, scary things, one person can put up one pride flag and give hope to maybe three other kids in the neighborhood who they don't even know. Like, all of us can have a really positive ripple effect and improve things even when we don't realize it. You never know who's watching you, you know, it's sort of like that pay it forward idea. You never know what kind of ripple effect could be happening. So I draw a lot of inspiration and comfort from the fact that no matter what is going on politically, we can still make differences in our everyday lives. We can still protect our families. We can still provide for the people around us. We can still create a safe harbor no matter where you are or who you are. So it's that power of the individual, despite it all, that gives me a lot of hope. That's so, so inspiring. And you know, I hope folks remember how much difference they can make just by taking small steps that may seem small to them but are so meaningful to others. So thank you both for those reminders and being with you and the work of the NAMI Alliance and our partners, like the Trevor Project, gives me so much hope that we can really change things. And if you want to learn more about the Trevor Project's research, you can go to thetrevorproject.org/research. I encourage you to. Fantastic data. Really, really readable and usable and understandable too so encourage you to check that out. This has been Hope Starts With Us a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. If you're looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with the NAMI HelpLine and find local resources, visit nami.org/help. Text "HelpLine" to 62640 or dial 1-800-950-NAMI. That's 1-800-950-6264. If you're experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 988 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org. And of course, please reach out to our friends at The Trevor Project who provide amazing crisis resources as well. I'm Hannah Wesolowski, your guest host today. Thanks for listening. Thank you Taylor and Rodrigo and be well.